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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#24876: Sep 10th 2015 at 9:28:56 AM

It would've ended on a high note, since every story needs a downer ending. The fight with Old Piccoro was already a curb-stomp to begin with, I don't think much would've changed.

edited 10th Sep '15 9:30:49 AM by randomness4

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#24877: Sep 10th 2015 at 10:01:18 AM

Much like "Z Fighters", the role of "Guardian of Earth" was invented by the dub. In this case, it was to give him a title that isn't God, because Westerners take Christianity much more seriously than Japan. They turned Kami into his name and invented a new title to pass him off as a mystical defender instead of God.

Japan plays with Christian mythology the way the West plays with Egyptian, Greco-Roman, and Norse mythology.

edited 10th Sep '15 10:03:50 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#24878: Sep 10th 2015 at 10:03:36 AM

Japan plays with Christian mythology the way the West plays with Egyptian, Greco-Roman, and Norse mythology.

I never looked at it that way.

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Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#24879: Sep 10th 2015 at 10:04:03 AM

So even though they're not as powerful, Kami, Guru and Dende as much Gods as the Kaioshins and Beerus.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#24880: Sep 10th 2015 at 10:06:26 AM

[up][up] Might I recommend Angel Sanctuary? Only the manga though

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#24881: Sep 10th 2015 at 10:07:11 AM

Yes. They're basically the lowest known rungs on the divine hierarchy. That's why God can travel to the afterlife and vouch for Goku to keep his body, it's why the Nameless Namekian had to purify his soul to ascend to the position, and it's why Piccolo in the Buu Saga knows so much about how the afterlife functions when he exposits what will happen to Vegeta's soul.

And while the relationship between God and the Dragon Balls is tentatively defined at best, it's pretty firmly established that a Namekian has to be God to create the Balls.

edited 10th Sep '15 10:09:00 AM by TobiasDrake

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#24882: Sep 10th 2015 at 10:07:37 AM

Wasn't he referred to as Earth's guardian during the Cell arc? Piccolo just went up to him and told him he sucked at his job and should therefore cease to exist so he could have a powerup.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#24883: Sep 10th 2015 at 10:08:28 AM

[up] I'm assuming Piccolo's fusion with Kami is the reason he knows about the divine pecking order in the Buu Saga, then.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#24884: Sep 10th 2015 at 10:10:26 AM

Being a God seems to be more of a job title than anything in Dragon Ball. Both Kami and Dende were regular Namekians before taking on the title and seemingly gained all the abilities and privileges along with it. On the other hand, even though Piccolo fused with Kami he doesn't count as a good since the letter left his position.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#24885: Sep 10th 2015 at 10:11:41 AM

So that is why Dende is able to sense Godly Ki.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#24886: Sep 10th 2015 at 10:12:43 AM

Yep. Because Dende is God.

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Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#24887: Sep 10th 2015 at 10:14:26 AM

Funny though, Goku was actually offered the position of a God after he beat Piccolo. I wonder if he didn't refuse would he become a SSG a lot earlier? tongue

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#24888: Sep 10th 2015 at 11:14:24 AM

My question about Guru was never answered.

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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#24890: Sep 10th 2015 at 11:25:51 AM

So being a God in Dragon Ball is more or less just a job...seems appropriate.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#24891: Sep 10th 2015 at 11:30:49 AM

Yep. It's the same with the other tiers too. The Kaios and Kaioshins are members of the Shin-jin race chosen to fill those roles. I wouldn't be surprised if even Beerus was appointed to his position or otherwise earned it rather than simply having existed as God of Destruction since time immemorial.

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#24892: Sep 10th 2015 at 11:32:52 AM

Is the part about Beerus obvious? I mean, Whis offered to give the job to Goku after Beerus dies.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#24893: Sep 10th 2015 at 2:18:54 PM

The Guru question brought this to mind:

Did Kami know about his Namekian heritage? He had to, why else, or how else could he have known that he could create Dragonballs? I seem to remember neither Piccolo or Kami knowing their true origins.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#24894: Sep 10th 2015 at 2:21:22 PM

He did not. He said something about creating the dragon balls in an attempt to fill a longing in his heart or something like that.

edited 11th Sep '15 3:02:27 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#24895: Sep 10th 2015 at 2:33:38 PM

@Are you suggesting the difference between Cell and Gohan was anything like the difference between Kuririn and Freeza? That's absurd, and there's nothing to support it. Keep in mind Cell's true speed outstripped Gohan, and aside from specific cases, speed correlates with power. That would strongly suggest that Cell's full power also outstrips Gohan, because there is no evidence that Cell is faster than he is powerful (very unusual in DB) or Gohan wasn't really going at full speed.

Futhermore, your example with Vegeta and Freeza is way off because you ignore that Vegeta and Cell have totally different motivations for goading their opponent. Vegeta was counting on Freeza's transformation being on the same line of Zarbon's, so the group could handle it (much like he handled transformed Zarbon despite being heavily implied to be weaker even after his zenkai).

Cell wanted an opponent who can make him use his full power. He doesn't need to draw out Gohan's hidden power if Gohan was already stronger than him.

Using those examples doesn't help your argument at all, because they're completely different situations and you don't actually have anything in this scene to back it up.

You're arguing against the points based on the actual fight without a single thing from the fight to back up your side - nothing that implies Gohan was that much more powerful than base Cell, just that he'd have to be for your argument to work.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#24896: Sep 10th 2015 at 2:35:20 PM

Wait, so was Gohan stronger than Perfect Cell as SS 1 or not?

edited 10th Sep '15 2:36:28 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#24897: Sep 10th 2015 at 2:37:05 PM

Stronger than the level of power Cell used against Goku, most likely weaker than Cell's full power which was alluded to but only shown against SS2 Gohan where it didn't measure up.

Nobody knew about that power when Gohan was sent to fight Cell, though. He brings up his true speed against Gohan and outspeeds him, while implying that he still hasn't used his full strength.

edited 10th Sep '15 2:38:36 PM by Saiga

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#24898: Sep 10th 2015 at 2:40:03 PM

What was Super Zarbon's weakness?Speed?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#24899: Sep 10th 2015 at 2:43:09 PM

He didn't have one. Vegeta just got him off guard and spam-attacked him until Zarbon's battle power dropped from the damage he took and Vegeta was left stronger than him.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#24900: Sep 10th 2015 at 2:46:02 PM

It's inconclusive. He outclassed the level of strength Perfect Cell used in his fight with Goku, but that wasn't his full power. He was easily overpowered by Cell when he refused to fight back, but he didn't really fight Cell seriously until he became a Super Saiyan 2, at which point he made such short work of Cell that it's impossible to say where Cell compared to the form.

The main condemning point against Perfect Cell being stronger than Super Saiyan Gohan is that 50% of SS 2 Gohan's power was enough to destroy Super Perfect Cell. This depends on how you interpret the scene; whether you think Goku's assurance that Gohan could win was based on the fact that 50% power could still defeat Cell if he made good use of it, or if you think that Goku was disagreeing with Gohan being at 50% and that he powered all the way back up to full in the final Beam Struggle.

The main condemning point in favor of Perfect Cell being stronger than Super Saiyan Gohan is that Cell was goading Gohan into transforming and Cell totally wouldn't do that if Gohan was already stronger than him. The validity of this argument depends entirely on whether you agree with that description of Cell's character or if you think that Cell is entirely capable of getting drunk on his own ego and making bad judgment calls.

Either way, it's open to interpretation.

edited 10th Sep '15 2:46:51 PM by TobiasDrake

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