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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#24651: Sep 6th 2015 at 7:52:08 PM

You're not the only one who has taken martial arts.

And that's true, when talking about real life standards. If you're claiming Satan has the raw power of Piccolo Daimao, though, that really doesn't work. Poor technique is one thing but the difference is far too great in that instance.

[up] I think it's more likely Toriyama never considered those comparisons.

edited 6th Sep '15 7:53:22 PM by Saiga

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#24652: Sep 6th 2015 at 7:58:11 PM

I mean, Goku's attacks at the beginning of the series barely phased Ox King.

The first time the gunmen show up, when they hurt Bee, Hercule moves faster than they can see.

That puts him at least at Krillin's level in the 21st World Tournament.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#24653: Sep 6th 2015 at 7:58:47 PM

A powerlevel of 24 would make Videl more than twice as strong as Goku at the start of Dragon Ball. Keep in mind that to Videl, lifting a bus is frikkin' insane, while 13 years old Goku could most likely do exactly that. It would probably strain him, for sure, but he could do it.

[up]Wrong!

See, here's the thing: Moving too fast to see? That's not what Krillin and Master Roshi did in their fight.

They were moving so fast that they had a complete fight complete with comedy schtick in under a second.

Also interesting fact:

I can break a man's neck with a kick.

Here's another interesting fact:

A human can kick really fucking hard and the neck can break really fucking easily if you kick it right. There's a reason why everyone considers it a giant weak spot.

edited 6th Sep '15 8:01:07 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#24654: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:01:09 PM

I do wonder how strong Ox King is. I want to say he's probably weaker than his daughter, but I'm not sure.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#24655: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:02:23 PM

I can break a man's neck with a kick.

Here's another interesting fact:

A human can kick really fucking hard and the neck can break really fucking easily if you kick it right. There's a reason why everyone considers it a giant weak spot.

That's not quite what I was saying.

Maybe I was remembering the scene wrong but Videl didn't just break his neck.

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#24656: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:04:26 PM

FALCON KICK! https://youtu.be/j3VgAtSwE7g?t=2m18s

YES!

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#24657: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:05:27 PM

What Videl did twisted his head to the side in a way the neck is not meant to bend. She broke it alright. Possibly severed his spine-

Keep in mind that this is after Videl learns ki control, at which point she's probably strnger than early DB Goku who didn't even know what Ki even is.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#24658: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:05:56 PM

She kicked Spopovich in the face and his head turned completely around. Also, Goku's Power Level being 10 is bullshit because there's no way that Grandpa Gohan's Power Level is way below 100.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#24659: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:08:07 PM

[up][up] ...I know that.

I was saying that she broke it in a way that it was a little excessive for it to break.

Most neck breaks don't involve a near complete 180-degree spin.

...And maybe it was the animation, but she kicked him in the head too.

The back of the head.

edited 6th Sep '15 8:17:20 PM by unnoun

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#24660: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:19:21 PM

It's fairly common to put Videl and Satan up against "normal" DB humans, like the lesser competitors in the World Martial Arts Tournaments and some Red Ribbon folk.

They don't usually do to well. It's been a long time but I could swear even Ranfan has some impressive feats even though she was pretty much a joke. Ranfan vs. Videl, go!

At the very least I'm pretty sure Ranfan and Colonel Silver are the best Videl and her pops can do. The next level up would be Nam and General Blue and haha, no, they are not winning there.

edited 6th Sep '15 8:20:20 PM by Nikkolas

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#24661: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:21:47 PM

Yeah.

She probably went balls out full power with that kick out of desperation at that point.

I'm not sure if her ki control played a factor though. Did Gohan teach her to channel it when attacking? I mean, wouldn't using it to fly and using it when throwing a punch be different things, or was that something he ended up covering when he was teaching her flight because it was important?

Whatever the case, she's likely somewhere at the level some of the Z fighters were in maybe mid Dragon Ball.

One Strip! One Strip!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#24662: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:22:11 PM

I recall hearing somewhat that Mr. Satan is supposed to be the strongest non-ki-sensitive in the series. This would put him above most of the lesser Tournament folk, which is admittedly kind of weird because most of them have something that would basically be a superpower in any other story.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#24663: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:26:30 PM

Mr. Satan is weaker than Bob Sapp.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#24664: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:27:15 PM

No one is weaker than Bob Sapp.

My various fanfics.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#24665: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:29:21 PM

More than anything though.

Videl seems like someone who likes martial arts and fighting and training and learning techniques.

I think it's implied the reason her dad won't let her train with him anymore is she already surpassed him. And, again, he can at least move faster than people can see.

Videl is someone I can imagine wearing weighted clothing, or slowly working her way up through the levels in a Gravity Chamber.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#24666: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:29:22 PM

My opinions of early Power Levels:

Ranfan: 11

Bacterian: 13

Mr. Hercule Satan: 20

Beginning Krillin: 23

Beginning Yamcha: 27

Beginning Goku: 30

Videl pre-training: 35

21st Yamcha: 50

Videl post-training: 60

21st Krillin: 75

Namu: 80

21st Goku: 85

21st Roshi: 100

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#24667: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:30:39 PM

Nevermind.

edited 6th Sep '15 8:33:04 PM by unnoun

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#24668: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:31:15 PM

21st Goku was stronger than Roshi. He just had less experience and less tricks.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#24669: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:32:03 PM

[up][up]I think that was rude.

[up] Nah, he was way weaker. The only way he kept up was with ingenuity and Roshi blowing all his energy destroying the moon.

edited 6th Sep '15 8:33:34 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#24671: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:33:26 PM

To be fair, you kind of pulled those numbers out of nowhere with no backing except stating that it's your opinion. He might have been rude, but it is difficult to take your random opinion seriously without support.

edited 6th Sep '15 8:33:59 PM by Arha

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#24672: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:33:29 PM

IIRC 21st Goku and Roshi were supposed to be exact equals.

And again with 22nd Goku and Tien.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#24673: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:33:52 PM

Power Levels are one of the few things that keep me attached to DB/Z, even as I grwo to dislike it more as I grow up. They're a lot of fun to discuss.

As for Goku vs. Roshi, I place them on equal footing, so both 100. Roshi just had better techniques.

edited 6th Sep '15 8:34:34 PM by Nikkolas

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#24674: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:34:27 PM

[up]Yeah, would've beaten Goku early on with Hypnosis if not for Bulma.

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#24675: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:34:50 PM

Way weaker? Roshi was getting pushed to his limits and tiring out while Goku was mostly just playing around and having fun.


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