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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23851: Aug 24th 2015 at 7:12:40 PM

Given that the species/race/clan/family shows an ability to radically alter their appearance, I would say... nah, it is probably a biological ability they have, one that Cooler just so happened to use for the opposite reason it is normally used.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23852: Aug 24th 2015 at 7:16:50 PM

By the way, speaking of movie villains, I want to ask, having never seen movie 7, how do 13/14/15 compare to 16/17/18? They sound weaker from what I've heard about them, but I'm not sure.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#23853: Aug 24th 2015 at 7:16:57 PM

[up](x5)Yeah, but this.

[up](x4)Well I like the idea, explains why the 5th form would be so dramatically below Golden Freeza.

[up]Weaker, with the exception of 13.

15 and 14 got beat by Super Saiyans, 13 fought evenly with one, whereas 18 pulverized a Super Saiyan, and 17 fought evenly with a Super Namek. Super 13, though, was able to put down Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo, and Goku in short order.

I don't know why Gero keeps building things so that the earlier model upgrades itself by devouring the later ones, instead of the other way around, or simply building the newer one stronger.

edited 24th Aug '15 7:26:11 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#23854: Aug 24th 2015 at 7:30:28 PM

Imagine how amazing Eight will be after he tracks down every single other android one by one.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23855: Aug 24th 2015 at 7:34:04 PM

1-7 and 9-12 are presumably lying in a scrap heap somewhere so 8 could cannibalize parts from them I guess.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23856: Aug 24th 2015 at 7:48:11 PM

The Super 13 movie was set before anyone entered the hyperbolic time chamber given the looks of the characters. Super Saiyan Trunks and Super Saiyan Vegeta were strong enough to defeat Android 14 and 15 on their own. 13 was even with Super Saiyan Goku. When 13 absorbed 14 and 15 he was stronger then all 3 of them plus Piccolo, who may or may not have fused with Kami at that point(which would have made him stronger than the 3 Super Saiyans) At best I'd say Super 13 was even with Android 16.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23857: Aug 24th 2015 at 7:50:59 PM

[up] I sometimes forget how strong 16 was, considering he didn't like to fight.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23858: Aug 24th 2015 at 7:53:15 PM

He only had 1 real fight, which makes remembering hard.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#23859: Aug 24th 2015 at 8:04:04 PM

I wonder what a Super Eighter would be like, if he would have absorb androids 1-7 and 9-12 and maybe 13-16,19 and Gero if he could find their parts.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23860: Aug 24th 2015 at 8:05:15 PM

He'd be the ultimate pacifist.tongue

One Strip! One Strip!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#23861: Aug 24th 2015 at 8:15:01 PM

I'd put Super 13 on par with either 16 or Semi-Perfect Cell.

edited 24th Aug '15 8:15:16 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#23862: Aug 24th 2015 at 8:17:08 PM

Well, we all know the pacifists are the most powerful characters in the story. Or, at least, they used to be.

I really doubt Vegeta achieved Super Saiyan long before the Androids. Knowing Vegeta, he would have raced to rematch Goku as soon as he obtained the form. After all, that was still his driving force, more than the threat of the Androids.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#23863: Aug 24th 2015 at 8:19:49 PM

Better yet, what if Eighter was one of the people who helped defeat Cell, powering up by absorbing parts of 16 and helping Gohan put in the final blow!

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23864: Aug 24th 2015 at 8:28:29 PM

...why would he even be there?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23866: Aug 24th 2015 at 8:39:02 PM

[up]

Sounds valid to me.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23867: Aug 25th 2015 at 3:34:09 AM

@Lolypop

We know Vegeta, though, and Vegeta would never reveal his new form until he was certain he could beat Goku.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#23869: Aug 25th 2015 at 6:18:12 AM

I think when Trunks and Vegeta were training together under 500x gravity Trunks had to go SS to be able to stand it and Vegeta didn't. So just because he gets that big multiplier doesn't mean he's actually on par with adults who can do the same thing.

Vegeta was already a Super Saiyan in this scene. Also, when it comes to gravity it isn't purely about power, but being used to it - Yamcha has the same reaction to 10x gravity that a roughly 3x weaker Goku does, and even Gohan is taken aback by 10x gravity when he's first introduced to it in the RoSaT - despite being literally thousands of times stronger than either. But at any rate, it's only shown that Vegeta and Trunks both can handle the gravity as Super Saiyan.

They're on par with the adults. Definitely weaker, but still decently close given that Goten and Gohan spar evenly while both are Super Saiyans, Trunks can easily handle the gravity Vegeta trains in (and land a blow on his face when Vegeta is trying his best not to dodge), and all but explicitly confirmed as being stronger than Piccolo (well, it IS explicit if you count the guidebooks).

No, you didn't, so I think we're having different arguments.

I started this in response to claims that the entirety of Dragon Ball since Raditz was Gohan's Story, that the Saiyan Saga and Freiza Saga were build-up for Gohan taking the torch from Goku in the Cell Games, and that Goku taking back the torch in the Buu Saga is thus a betrayal of everything the story has ever been about.

I'm going to just reply to this part for now, because I think you're right, which should probably be cleared up before anything else.

I know someone mentioned that Saiyan onwards is Gohan's story around the time I made my original post, but I wasn't intending to support that argument. My argument was that Gohan being chosen as the protagonist had enough elements to support it from earlier parts of the story.

So given that, is there a point in continuing?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#23870: Aug 25th 2015 at 8:58:01 AM

I'm going to just reply to this part for now, because I think you're right, which should probably be cleared up before anything else.

I know someone mentioned that Saiyan onwards is Gohan's story around the time I made my original post, but I wasn't intending to support that argument. My argument was that Gohan being chosen as the protagonist had enough elements to support it from earlier parts of the story.

So given that, is there a point in continuing?

I don't think so. We're in agreement on that. Dragon Ball post-Raditz wasn't "Gohan's Story," but Gohan taking the torch was narratively consistent with the events that led up to it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23871: Aug 25th 2015 at 8:58:45 AM

That's the best way to put it I agree.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
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#23872: Aug 25th 2015 at 9:52:10 AM

I'd like to point out that Goten having an easier time with Super Saiyan because his father had already reached it is not a case of Lamarak Genetics.

Certain triggers get "turned off", so to speak, when not in use and can be more difficult to "turn on" if child's parent was in such a state at the time.

Doesn't mean that you can't be a marathon runner just because your mom and dad were both fat asses when they had you, but it does make it likely that brother of yours they had after becoming fitness nuts will have an easier time getting in shape than you do.

I'm not even saying the Goten theory is true, it probably isn't, but it would be a reasonable explanation as to why Goten got to turn super faster than Gohan. Trunks being Goten's contemporary suggests it is unlikely, but still doesn't make it completely impossible. Genetics can be fickle, even without taking mutations into account.(Trunks turns Super Saiyan at an early age to radiation induced mutations caused in Vegeta's stock during his multiple interstellar travels)

Pan inheriting Gohan's elder kai power up would have been completely possible though, since it's explicitly magic, being the result of a forced fusion between a Kaioshin and a witch. I'm waiting for the baby born as a super saiyan god super saiyan.

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23873: Aug 25th 2015 at 9:54:38 AM

Pan being unable to become a Super Saiyan because of magic sperm.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23874: Aug 25th 2015 at 10:00:48 AM

What's sad is that this would work a lot, but they probably won't do it.

So not only does Gohan just lose his new power-up, but they will willfully ignore a good explanation for it because girls can't be important in this series.

Pan will never go Super Saiyan, and they just don't care to try and explain it.

One Strip! One Strip!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#23875: Aug 25th 2015 at 10:10:35 AM

Can't we just accept that ability to turn into a Super Sayian is codded in Y Chromosome and be done with it? It's better than the annual complaints session.


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