The thing is that it is also clearly shown why everyone else's survival leads to Gohan being strong enough to beat Cell. He simply didn't have Goku's tutelage in the original timeline. Also, Goku also spent three years training outside of the room and achieved diddly squat, even though Future Gohan trained for a longer time it's pretty much the same situation. If it wasn't for the room of spirit and time then Goku would have failed just as hard as Gohan.
And while he doesn't have a personal connection to Cell, unlike Trunks or Goku, he doesn't need one because his connection to his father is more important. His plotline isn't about the villains, it's about surpassing his father, so all that is required of the villain is to be someone Goku can't beat, which is exactly what Cell was.
Even though Future Trunks went back to save Goku, that just makes it clearer that Gohan surpasses him. Goku could have came up with a away to defeat the Android (his RoSaT training made him more than strong enough) as Trunks wanted, but couldn't defeat Cell, as Gohan could.
edited 22nd Aug '15 8:43:59 PM by Saiga
Gohan is the biggest missed opportunity the series ever had and I don't think they even realise it.
The whole "Goku was more popular" thing is really stupid. This is a battle shonen. A character doesn't get popular because of their personality or design, but by what they do.
Gohan did a lot of cool stuff in the Cell Saga. Hence, everyone liked him. At the end of the Buu Saga, he ended up contributing nothing at all. Hence, everyone stopped liking him.
All they need to do to make Gohan popular again is to actually give him something to do, as opposed to just using him to be Worfed.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!Well, they won't.
They've quite clearly given up on him, so Gohan will never ever amount to anything again.
That's just how it is. Butt monkeys remain butt monkeys, weaklings stay weaklings, and nothing will change.
One Strip! One Strip!To be fair, in Gohan's eyes, the Cell Games had no stakes. Gohan just saw them as a pointless display of glorifying violence for sport and he wanted no part in it. Cell, of course, noticed this and, using the Cell Jrs, created stakes; but it wasn't until then that Gohan felt that there was a legitimate reason to fight because the whole event basically existed to stroke Cell's ego.
That wasn't a leather pantsing. Vegeta was already established as pure of heart when he became a Super Saiyan. When called out on not having a pure heart like Goku, Vegeta explains, "My heart is pure. Pure evil."
This. All the complaints about Dragon Ball post-Raditz being Gohan's story and how it all was leading up to Gohan taking the torch are premised on the idea that Toriyama planned a lot in advance, which is patently untrue.
Gohan became the hero in the Cell Saga because Toriyama thought that was a cool idea. Goku retook the torch in the Buu Saga because Toriyama thought that was a cool idea.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Gohan's contribution to the Raditz fight consisted of one awesome moment abruptly subverted. He saved Goku, but Goku had to save him immediately after.
Against Nappa, he was dead weight and got Piccolo killed.
He had more to offer against Vegeta but only on Goku's advisement. He rebounded the Genki-Dama because Goku telepathically told him to do it, and he became the Oozaru on Goku's urging. He wasn't really a combatant, so much as a useful weapon for Goku to wield against Vegeta after Goku's body had given up on him.
On Namek, Gohan continued his trend of very minor contributions as a supporting character, backing up Vegeta and Piccolo.
Then the Androids arrived and Gohan remained a supporting character, never actually getting to fight a single Android until the Cell Games.
Dragon Ball was never Gohan's story. The Cell Saga shifted to be about Gohan just as abruptly as the Buu Saga shifted to be about Goku. Goku giving up suddenly and saying that Gohan's going to fight Cell instead was that arc's "Gohan is absorbed and Goku has to find someone else to fuse with."
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Between this quote and
Tobias has actually convinced me.
I'm no longer pissed that Toriyama set Gohan up to be the hero and then tossed it all away.
....Now I'm pissed because he didn't plan anything. If it was really just that would be cool, then it's even more annoying.
Toriyama should do the series the way I specifically like it.
....getting serious, he really should have planned things out a bit better. He could have at least avoided the power level inflation.
One Strip! One Strip!The Saiyan Saga was very much about Gohan's character development. That is, about him growing up from a spoiled little boy to a competent fighter.
After that...not much really happened with him until the Cell Saga.
If Toriyama was writing off the seat of his pants, it was pretty commendable that he decided to actually do something with the whole 'Gohan has hidden power' plot point. You would have expected him to forget about it.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!![]()
If by his idea you mean he just started desperately shouting it when Gohan was rampaging and he thought he was going to attack them then yes.
If you mean actually getting him to transform in the first place and then getting him to attack Vegeta it was all Goku.
edited 22nd Aug '15 10:19:19 PM by LSBK
Gohan's development isn't about how much he contributed to fights. From his introduction his point of view is followed more closely than Goku's, and Goku basically just becomes The Big Guy who fights on the frontlines.
While Goku is learning to become more powerful, it's Gohan who is present for Piccolo's character development and the driving force behind his redemption. He's also the final blow landed on Vegeta, and it's ridiculous to call him a weapon because Goku directed him. No, he's still a character, taking the advice of someone more experience than him absolutely does not reduce his importance in that battle.
Gohan was present for the entirety of the Namek arc, and his view of the events is followed closely. Even down to him being the only person other than Freeza to witness Super Saiyan Goku.
The android arc does reduce Gohan's focus... because it pushes multiple characters more (Vegeta, Piccolo, Trunks and Kuririn are all very active) and reduces Goku even further. Most of Goku's appearances are about making another character more important - at the start of the arc, he's quite passive for Trunks' introduction and only used to receive Trunks' message and make sure he's not too awesome. Then he immediately jobs to an Android to give Vegeta some credibility, and stays even further out of things than Gohan who is present for finding Cell's shell.
Once he returns, he immediately facilitates a power up for Vegeta and Trunks, then sits right beside Gohan as Gohan reacts more to the events than he does. He briefly exits in order to retrieve Tenshinhan after his big moment, and then it's off to training alongside Gohan. This training focuses mostly on Gohan, between helping him achieve Super Saiyan and watching as he develops. The most focus he gets is when he achieves Grade 2 and 3... which are used to provide exposition on Trunks' fight. Then he gets a power up that Gohan also gets.
After that he has a brief fight with Cell before Gohan takes over. So it'd be pretty ridiculous to call it Goku's story at this point.
Also, comparing Gohan stepping up to Gohan getting absorbed is just plain laughable. The two are like night and day - despite Toriyama writing by the seat of his pants, Gohan's takeover is actually built up through small, but obvious hints. Yes, the exact moment Goku steps down is very sudden, but that is a deliberate Plot Twist. That's the whole point of the "mystery fighter" scene. With hindsight it becomes very obvious that Gohan is being groomed to take over Goku, but it's also something Toriyama didn't want people to figure out before he got there.
And, y'know, Goku giving up isn't so out of left field considering every bit of pre-fight dialogue was about how Goku couldn't expect to win.
For Goku's Boo arc takeover, there's really nothing that leads up to it. Boo's absorption ability is an absurdly convenient Ass Pull, Potara is an absurdly convenient Ass Pull, Vegetto's defusion is an absurdly convenient Ass Pull, Fat Boo receiving "special treatment" is an absurdly convenient Ass Pull, Boo having a completely new form that is just around Goku's strength is an absurdly convenient Ass Pull... none of this was founded on previous events or build up. Not one bit.
There's nothing to indicate the sudden nature of the switch had any narrative purpose, unlike Gohan stepping up at the Cell Games which perfectly fit what was being hinted at and build up before. Look at it this way: the Android arc was casting doubt on the idea that Goku would save the day before it turned out that he wouldn't. The Boo arc was having Goku say he shouldn't save the day before it turned out he would. Total opposites.
And even if Toriyama didn't plan ahead, he was still building up Gohan. It just means he didn't yet know what he was building up Gohan for. But that didn't prevent him from giving Gohan a unique feature (rage boosts) and noting that he had greater potential than Goku in his DEBUT.
Hell, even in the RoSaT Goku outright says "I intend for you to surpass me". It really doesn't get much clearer than this.
The only thing I think would need to be changed during the Cell arc for Gohan's takeover was to have him accompany Trunks and Kuririn to Gero's lab, just to continue the series' following Gohan's perspective on things. But as it is, Gohan's lack of focus in the middle of that arc is due to it being shared among four other prominent secondary characters - there's simply a lot going on it that arc.
The only one with more consistent focus and narrative connection in that arc is Trunks, and it would be a plainly terrible idea to have him defeat the present timeline's Cell. I'm not sure I have to even go into why since it's already well acknowledged here that his consistent failure is what gave him depth.
EUUUUUUUUUREKAAAAAAA, MOTHERRRRRRRRRFUCKERRRRRRRR!
I have a big stupid grin on my face right now.
edited 22nd Aug '15 10:57:22 PM by HamburgerTime
It almost makes up for how the episode used Gotenks and Gohan.
I can't believe it, but Gohan was somehow taken out even FASTER than in Battle of Gods.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
It doesn't make any sense, really. Majin Buu gets beaten from Beerus, Beerus gets angry, so the boys fuse...to do what? Tell him off? Did they need to fuse to do that?
I swear, it feels like the boys just fuse for every problem, not realising it doesn't solve the situation.
edited 22nd Aug '15 11:05:50 PM by LOLypop1224
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!

Gohan showed a reluctance to fight when Piccolo tried to train him and after he got over that, when Nappa and Vegeta touched down. Once he finally gets used to fighting, his fights are still exclusively alongside friends or in rage at friends getting hurt. Freezing up when suddenly along against Cell isn't that strange. It's not really defensible because he should have just sucked it up and fought like everyone's lives depended on it, but it is understandable and consistent.
As pointed out on this thread already by someone who thinks more about these things than me, Gohan beating Cell, rather than Goku or Trunks, or maybe even Piccolo, doesn't make a whole lot of sense anyway. Even with Vegeta, it would have been him cleaning up his own mess but Trunks is the one who came back in time to learn how to beat androids in the first place and was technically already killed by Cell in a timeline where he didn't beat them that way. Goku was the one whose death he came back to prevent to change the timeline. Wasn't Piccolo, who willingly did away with the dragon balls to become whole again either.
Gohan's the one who actually survived when everyone else died, trained for years, had nothing to show for it and died unceremoniously. Why he ends up beating Cell in a timeline where everyone else doesn't died and thus should be under less pressure (it still exists, but he's not truly alone) really isn't consistent, especially when he contributed so little against the androids that showed up before Cell anyway.
Gohan gets built up when Raditz comes, continues to be built up until Freeza reaches his final form, then just falls into the background until suddenly it's time to build him up again! I don't agree with the idea humansPiccolo should suddenly find a way to keep up with Majin Buu\Saiyans but when I think about the Gohan thing I do understand where fans come from.
edited 22nd Aug '15 8:19:52 PM by IndirectActiveTransport
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