Well I guess that makes sense.
You might have seen my Vegeta thread on Kanzenshuu where the one poster was saying he thought Vegeta was on somewhat even terms with 18. I was also re-watching the episode where Trunks vaporizes his versions of the androids with little effort.
It got me wondering about how giant the gap in power there was between them. Obviously post-ROSAT Trunks is way out of their league but what if the "Future Androids are weaker" stuf was true? Could Vegeta who lost against main 18 have defeated Future 18?
I apologize as that's a whole lot of hypothetical right there.
edited 7th Apr '13 4:01:43 AM by Nikkolas
If the Androids were indeed weaker in the future, then the gap would have to be noticeable enough for Trunks to, well, notice. And since he drew that conclusion based on Vegeta's fight with present 18 (that was when he thought the present ones were stronger, right?) then he must have believed Vegeta should be able to defeat the future 18.
That's what makes sense to me, anyway.
edited 7th Apr '13 4:05:13 AM by Saiga
Seems logical to me.
I know you like the Buu Saga but I don't think there's much to debate in the Buu Saga in terms of power levels... There is of course the old SSJ 3 Goku vs. Ultimate Gohan or Super Buu vs. Kid Buu but those are debates for the unenlightened.
The only things to discuss are...what? Dabura and which Gohan he fought? We've been over there. Oh I know - just how strong was Pui Pui?
Yeah, really scraping the bottom there...
Oh i got one! You think the brats are maybe a little stronger than Piccolo, right? Well that got me thinking about who would be a good match for someone way stronger than Piccolo ie. the Supreme Kai.
Where would you put the Supreme Kai? Maybe Android 16 level? Semi-Perfect Cell level? Super Saiyan Grade 2 level?
edited 7th Apr '13 4:12:38 AM by Nikkolas
Oh, I also forgot that Trunks mentioned that he could fight fairly evenly with the future Androids one-on-one. So I guess Vegeta would be able to beat Future 18 if that was their true strength.
As for Kaioshin, I have him around the level of the Cell Games Vegeta/Trunks or the Cell Jnrs. I think he might be higher than that, though, considering that he is supposed to be quite a bit stronger than Piccolo, but I think he should also be a fair bit weaker than Super Saiyan Gohan. Maybe I just don't have a wide enough gap between him and Gohan for Kaioshin to neatly fit.
edited 7th Apr '13 4:26:08 AM by Saiga
So I've tried to stay out of Z vs. Kai debates but I must speak up here. I didn't watch all of Kai but I was curious to hear more from the new 18.
Eric Vale's Trunks was one of the best performances in Z but here he is ridiculously growly. He sounds like he's trying to be Vegeta.
And Ms. Clinkenbeard's Eighteen is just...not right. Not right at all. It has absolutely no sense of dominance or control. Admittedly she was not in control right now but she's still supposed to sound strong. She sounds...whiny here. She might as well just be a regular girl as opposed to a superpowered badass cybernetic one.
Now here's Z Trunks vs. 17 & 18
What started all this was me actually looking up Budokai Tenkaichi videos with 18 and I came across an Ultimate Tenkaichi video with the new lady.
I think she's trying to emulate Mc Coy to some extent.
Clinkenbeard 18 in Ultimate Tenkaichi
They sound a lot closer there than in the anime.

Well yeah there was only the grapple in the anime as well. Nevertheless, if Vegeta was only about half of Freeza's level then how the heck could he even grapple with Freeza? He should be pushed back a little bit at the very least. I figured the fact neither could budge the other was supposed to show how close they were in power. I guess not.