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Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#2351: Apr 7th 2013 at 3:22:59 AM

Well yeah there was only the grapple in the anime as well. Nevertheless, if Vegeta was only about half of Freeza's level then how the heck could he even grapple with Freeza? He should be pushed back a little bit at the very least. I figured the fact neither could budge the other was supposed to show how close they were in power. I guess not.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2352: Apr 7th 2013 at 3:49:40 AM

Oh, right. Vegeta was left short of breath after that little struggle while Freeza was completely fine. So it works if Freeza was being half-assed about it.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#2353: Apr 7th 2013 at 4:00:27 AM

Well I guess that makes sense.

You might have seen my Vegeta thread on Kanzenshuu where the one poster was saying he thought Vegeta was on somewhat even terms with 18. I was also re-watching the episode where Trunks vaporizes his versions of the androids with little effort.

It got me wondering about how giant the gap in power there was between them. Obviously post-ROSAT Trunks is way out of their league but what if the "Future Androids are weaker" stuf was true? Could Vegeta who lost against main 18 have defeated Future 18?

I apologize as that's a whole lot of hypothetical right there.

edited 7th Apr '13 4:01:43 AM by Nikkolas

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2354: Apr 7th 2013 at 4:04:55 AM

If the Androids were indeed weaker in the future, then the gap would have to be noticeable enough for Trunks to, well, notice. And since he drew that conclusion based on Vegeta's fight with present 18 (that was when he thought the present ones were stronger, right?) then he must have believed Vegeta should be able to defeat the future 18.

That's what makes sense to me, anyway.

edited 7th Apr '13 4:05:13 AM by Saiga

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#2355: Apr 7th 2013 at 4:11:31 AM

Seems logical to me.

I know you like the Buu Saga but I don't think there's much to debate in the Buu Saga in terms of power levels... There is of course the old SSJ 3 Goku vs. Ultimate Gohan or Super Buu vs. Kid Buu but those are debates for the unenlightened.

The only things to discuss are...what? Dabura and which Gohan he fought? We've been over there. Oh I know - just how strong was Pui Pui?

Yeah, really scraping the bottom there...

Oh i got one! You think the brats are maybe a little stronger than Piccolo, right? Well that got me thinking about who would be a good match for someone way stronger than Piccolo ie. the Supreme Kai.

Where would you put the Supreme Kai? Maybe Android 16 level? Semi-Perfect Cell level? Super Saiyan Grade 2 level?

edited 7th Apr '13 4:12:38 AM by Nikkolas

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2356: Apr 7th 2013 at 4:25:33 AM

Oh, I also forgot that Trunks mentioned that he could fight fairly evenly with the future Androids one-on-one. So I guess Vegeta would be able to beat Future 18 if that was their true strength.

As for Kaioshin, I have him around the level of the Cell Games Vegeta/Trunks or the Cell Jnrs. I think he might be higher than that, though, considering that he is supposed to be quite a bit stronger than Piccolo, but I think he should also be a fair bit weaker than Super Saiyan Gohan. Maybe I just don't have a wide enough gap between him and Gohan for Kaioshin to neatly fit.

edited 7th Apr '13 4:26:08 AM by Saiga

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2357: Apr 7th 2013 at 9:49:58 AM

I thought post-fruit Turles was over 600,000, not 300,000? I recall he effortlessly stopped a x20 Kaioken from a 30,000 Goku.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#2358: Apr 7th 2013 at 9:58:02 AM

...I was think back to a talk early. On GT Goku's strength and I agree with Saiga. No one has can fight those monsters. Goku was training ten years with Uub who had been stated to be as strong as Kid Buu and in their final fight he beat Uub in his base form.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2359: Apr 7th 2013 at 10:08:09 AM

As far as I can tell almost everyone seems to say that GT Base Goku = Buu Saga SSJ 3 Goku.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#2360: Apr 7th 2013 at 10:22:33 AM

He would have to be around the same level of strength in order to win the fight.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2361: Apr 7th 2013 at 10:24:46 AM

I do wonder though. Wouldn't Uub himself have increased in power over the 5 years of training?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
MikeBreezy92 Storm King Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Noddin' my head like yeah
Storm King
#2362: Apr 7th 2013 at 10:28:06 AM

Maybe more so in Technique than anything.

youtube.com/Fire Trainer 92
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2363: Apr 7th 2013 at 10:30:04 AM

Majuub's gotta be stronger than Super Buu despite being the same components, though, seeing as he's stronger than Gohan and able to take on Baby Vegeta better than SSJ 3 Goku could.

edited 7th Apr '13 10:30:24 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#2364: Apr 7th 2013 at 10:40:40 AM

SSJ3 Goku had his own problems, but Uub would be a little stronger. But not by much because he only human.

edited 7th Apr '13 10:40:59 AM by theweirdKiddokun

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#2365: Apr 7th 2013 at 10:42:30 AM

Until next arc where SSJ 1 Goku is stronger.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#2366: Apr 7th 2013 at 1:59:21 PM

"I thought post-fruit Turles was over 600, 000, not 300, 000? I recall he effortlessly stopped a x20 Kaioken from a 30, 000 Goku. "

It was x20 in the dub but x10 in the original.

GT Goku's power level hurts my head. I'm more interested in how strong Pan was. (<3 Pan)

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2367: Apr 7th 2013 at 3:51:16 PM

Like everyone else in GT, her power level should be measured in units of Vegettos.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#2368: Apr 7th 2013 at 4:10:41 PM

I think GT Pan is worth 1 Candy Vegetta.

edited 7th Apr '13 4:11:11 PM by Nikkolas

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2369: Apr 7th 2013 at 4:40:13 PM

So we've upgraded from Raditzes to Vegitos?

...Vegitos sounds like Doritos.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2370: Apr 7th 2013 at 4:55:50 PM

[up][up] She's definitely stronger than that, this is GT after all. She's probably around 200 Vegettos, at least when angry.

edited 7th Apr '13 4:55:57 PM by Saiga

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#2371: Apr 7th 2013 at 5:09:13 PM

So I've tried to stay out of Z vs. Kai debates but I must speak up here. I didn't watch all of Kai but I was curious to hear more from the new 18.

Kai Trunks kills 17 & 18

Eric Vale's Trunks was one of the best performances in Z but here he is ridiculously growly. He sounds like he's trying to be Vegeta.

And Ms. Clinkenbeard's Eighteen is just...not right. Not right at all. It has absolutely no sense of dominance or control. Admittedly she was not in control right now but she's still supposed to sound strong. She sounds...whiny here. She might as well just be a regular girl as opposed to a superpowered badass cybernetic one.

Now here's Z Trunks vs. 17 & 18

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2372: Apr 7th 2013 at 5:39:29 PM

I definitely prefer Trunks' and 18's voices in the clip of the original video you linked... but as that's the only video I've seen of Kai it may just be because it's familiar. Funny, I hadn't noticed 18 having a new voice in the later video games which are supposed to have the Kai cast.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#2373: Apr 7th 2013 at 6:10:04 PM

What started all this was me actually looking up Budokai Tenkaichi videos with 18 and I came across an Ultimate Tenkaichi video with the new lady.

I think she's trying to emulate Mc Coy to some extent.

Clinkenbeard 18 in Ultimate Tenkaichi

McCoy 18 in Budokai Tenkaichi

They sound a lot closer there than in the anime.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2374: Apr 7th 2013 at 6:14:13 PM

Raging Blast 2 and Ultimate Tenkaichi have Clinkenbeard as her VA yet I played both of them and didn't notice the difference until now. Then again, I don't think I really used 18 much in either game and you only play against her twice in UT.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#2375: Apr 7th 2013 at 6:49:48 PM

I wish I had Budokai Tenkaichi again... I know a lot of people hate it for some rason but the sheer selection of characters was fantastic. Everyone you could ever want to play was in that game.


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