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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#23701: Aug 22nd 2015 at 6:56:13 PM

[up][up] This is never really answered indepth, but as mutants they should be off-shoots from another race yes.

However, what that race was isn't important because they likely don't resemble Freeza's clan at all. And the clan would not be a good representation of that race.

Also I am no blaspheming scientist type but I think evolution can result in new species so the fact that Freeza's clan came from another race doesn't mean they necessarily ARE of that race.

edited 22nd Aug '15 6:57:18 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#23702: Aug 22nd 2015 at 6:57:33 PM

Why did this guy come up with the term "Acrosian" anyway? Like, what's the pseudo etymology of it?

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23703: Aug 22nd 2015 at 6:57:35 PM

Inspired by a thread I saw on Kanzenshuu, could Gohan have carried the series if his Mystic state had actually been the be-all, end-all powerup? Like I said earlier, I do suspect outside forces were at play in shortchanging him. In my opinion, Gohan isn't really the world-saver type his dad is, but it's the end of the series anyway so would it really matter?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#23704: Aug 22nd 2015 at 6:58:43 PM

[up][up] Funi dub. Being the early Funi dub, there is likely no deep thought put into it.

[up] Goku's not the world saver type anyway. He's the world endangerer type. Since it's the end of the series and we've already seen that Gohan can save the world narratively, it really wouldn't have been a problem.

It may have been a problem for making the series a Franchise Zombie but at the same time Toei actually seemed to accept Gohan as the lead for that short period because he was featured prominently in merchandise and promotional media at the time.

edited 22nd Aug '15 7:00:06 PM by Saiga

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23705: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:03:13 PM

[up] See, that piece of information makes me again think the change was both very last-minute and not entirely in Toriyama's hands. At the very least, if it was, I doubt we'll ever know it due to Japanese Politeness.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23706: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:04:41 PM

I think it's fairly obvious who requested the change.

The audience. Which wanted Goku back. He is the most popular character of the franchise, after all.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#23707: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:11:00 PM

You keep saying that, and I don't think that means anything.

Toriyama has never shown to be polite, has insulted every one of his editors, trashed Evolution, criticized the anime multiple times, gave his reasons about why he replaced Gohan, and has very clearly shown he is on board with Goku.

Japanese Politeness is not absolute and I think it's a little close-minded to assume he MUST be polite because he's Japanese.

The manga is so full of last minute changes that Gohan's example doesn't even stand out in terms of poor planning.

[up] Gohan was more popular during the Cell Games and Toriyama easily could have just boosted his popularity by making him win again.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23708: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:11:59 PM

Wasn't it a pretty big deal that he openly criticized Evolution?

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23709: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:12:38 PM

I'm not gonna blame the man for being lazy, because that'd be hypocritical of me. It was easier to just go with what people already wanted and make Goku the protagonist.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#23710: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:12:54 PM

Only to the English-speaking fandom because they were so pleased by it.

[up] It's already a pretty big assumption that that is what he did, and he gave Gohan more focus originally when Goku was more popular so that doesn't make sense.

Really, having Gohan win isn't any less easy than bringing Goku back. We've already seen that Gohan defeating Cell put him in the #1 spot in the polls, so it looks like it doesn't matter who Toriyama uses as long as he makes them look good.

edited 22nd Aug '15 7:14:40 PM by Saiga

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#23712: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:15:48 PM

Really. And along with his other criticisms, of the anime or his editors, people just act like he said that motorbikes are cool or something equally mundane. The English speaking fandom may have a heart attack each time, but it's no big deal.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23713: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:17:47 PM

No, I mean did the English fandom really like Evolution?

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23714: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:18:03 PM

Toriyama is kind of... well, compared to other mangaka, he's amazingly rude. Most other Mangaka refuse to say anything bad about anyone they work with out of fear they can be screwed later for it.

Toriyama... well, he seems to be aware that he can always just make more Dragon Ball if he needs more money.

[up]Nobody liked Evolution and... well, it's pretty much certainly an intentional flop, given all the steps taken to make damn sure it sucked.

@Saiga

I wouldn't know, I don't have access to those polls, but frankly, the public in general is fickle. Maybe Toriyama is aware he pretty much can't go wrong with Dragon Ball.

edited 22nd Aug '15 7:20:09 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#23715: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:19:23 PM

he's rolling in dragon quest money on top of that too.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23716: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:24:30 PM

You know, I kinda want to see Toriyama designing more characters for videogames.

I want less Nomura, more Toriyama.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#23717: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:26:54 PM

nomura's fine provided he has direction and his aesthetic fits the game. twewy's designs were great.

i'd be alright with seeing toriyama's art in other games though. i think the last non DQ thing he did was blue dragon, and most people actually really liked the way that game looked even if they didn't care for the game itself.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23718: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:52:37 PM

Nomura is allowed free reign too frequently, and this results in the completely forgettable designs that are just trying way too hard.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23719: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:56:05 PM

Getting back on replacing Goku with Gohan, I don't care who's decision it was.

It wasted years of build up, and made all the focus on Gohan irrelevant.

We've discussed how Toriyama came up with a lot of traits for Gohan on the spot (he'd never shown a reluctance to fight before) and he really should have sat down for maybe little bit and actually thought about what he wanted to do instead of asspulling it.

He's lucky I still love this series, because.....ok, because nothing, but my point still somehow kinda stands for reasons only known to me.

One Strip! One Strip!
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#23720: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:59:25 PM

he really should have sat down for maybe little bit and actually thought about what he wanted to do instead of asspulling it.

i've heard that toriyama only spent like 3 days of the week working on dragon ball (that's what the tropes page for him says). if that's true lol i don't think he ever really sat down and planned anything beyond a week to week basis

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#23721: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:59:29 PM

Gohan would make a great Magical Girl.

Watch Symphogear
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23722: Aug 22nd 2015 at 8:03:06 PM

[up]Yes, but only a side magical girl. He'd make a fine Mizuno Ami or Hishikawa Rikka. Maybe he can pull off a semi-decent Nanoha, if he gets the correct love interest.

[up][up]IIRC, there's been lots of tales of the stuff Toriyama did instead of working on Dragon Ball, a lot of which was not actually work.

edited 22nd Aug '15 8:04:14 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23723: Aug 22nd 2015 at 8:05:03 PM

[up] There also many, many totally untrue rumors about DB's production as well.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#23724: Aug 22nd 2015 at 8:06:56 PM

yeah i know there's a lot of rumors that are total bull, i was partly saying that because i was hoping somebody would have a source or something. otherwise we might have to clean his page up.

edited 22nd Aug '15 8:07:22 PM by wehrmacht

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#23725: Aug 22nd 2015 at 8:08:53 PM

If we were to start removing unfounded Dragon Ball / Toriyama rumours on the main wiki we'd never finish.

Seriously, most of the time I see an entry on here for that it's wrong or baseless. I've given up on the main wiki.


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