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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23651: Aug 22nd 2015 at 1:05:57 PM

Hell, Super had Miss Piiza and Caroni helping with Satan's press conference. So they are canon, and Pirozhki probably is too.

That being said, while I sometimes agree, there are probably some who say they add nothing and therefore should not be canon.

One Strip! One Strip!
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#23652: Aug 22nd 2015 at 1:07:03 PM

They added this.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23654: Aug 22nd 2015 at 1:28:02 PM

Well then, they've earned their spot.

Let no man or woman debate this.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23656: Aug 22nd 2015 at 1:37:06 PM

......

Them too. Nobody can debate it, otherwise we lose the Beautiful Flying Rose attack.

And that won't stand.

One Strip! One Strip!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#23657: Aug 22nd 2015 at 2:32:14 PM

Non-binary? What kind of nonsense is this?

This is a decent thread, and we will not tolerate any of those hexadecimal freaks here! I mean, my god they are using letter for numbers!

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23658: Aug 22nd 2015 at 2:33:11 PM

[up]

I see what you did there.

One Strip! One Strip!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23659: Aug 22nd 2015 at 2:45:07 PM

So was there really any point to Supreme Kai being stronger than Piccolo? He does almost nothing after that except panic.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23660: Aug 22nd 2015 at 2:47:13 PM

Probably just to remind us that Piccolo is meaningless now.

Though now that I think about it, Piccolo didn't need to be weaker. His knowledge of the Celestial Hierarcy means he's got plenty reason to forfeit (who would punch God in the face after all), so it was ultimately another waste by Toriyama.

One Strip! One Strip!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#23661: Aug 22nd 2015 at 2:47:30 PM

There had to be a limit to how underwhelming the highest ranked god could be.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#23662: Aug 22nd 2015 at 2:54:45 PM

I think a bigger question could be "Was there a point to the existence of the Supreme Kai?"

Honestly, all of the deities in DBZ are so worthless that even after meeting them I'd still be an atheist.

My various fanfics.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#23663: Aug 22nd 2015 at 3:05:00 PM

Well, Gohan needed somewhere to hangout for thirty chapters or however long that was. And that was such an important time for him and the story.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23664: Aug 22nd 2015 at 3:11:11 PM

[up] Literally everything in the manga from Raditz onward makes astonishingly more sense if you know it was all building up to Gohan saving the day originally. This is why I have a very strong suspicion that the last minute switchout for Goku during the Buu fight was Executive Meddling, and the fact that Toriyama claims it was his own idea is just him being nice.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#23665: Aug 22nd 2015 at 3:15:53 PM

East Kaioshin\Supreme Kai(this series has too many damned translations) wasn't the highest ranking god so much as the highest ranking one left. His purpose was to reinforce this Majin Buu's bad news, a universal threat. Being stronger than Piccolo though? Not really.

They could have easy stated Piccolo respects his superior officer too much to fight him or stated he was using his psychic powers to prevent Piccolo from taking any hostile actions against him. We know they were useless against Buu but maybe showing them work on someone else besides atrophied Gohan would have made that fact have more impact.

Why his Majin Buu Kai psi proof but not Demigra proof? I can accept Babdi's magic not working due to Majin Buu's anatomy(he has no heart) but why can Demigra control Majins?

Buldogue's lawyer
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#23666: Aug 22nd 2015 at 3:34:37 PM

I didn't think Supreme Kai WAS stronger than Piccolo. I just thought he didn't want to punch his superior in the face.

Either way, we don't really know how strong he was. He apparently could one-shot Freeza, and he could restrain a weaker SSJ 2 Gohan, but that's about all we know.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23667: Aug 22nd 2015 at 3:36:52 PM

The one-shorting Frieza thing has been debated quite a bit.

He said the rest of them could do so as well, but that was apparently dub only.

I do believe they would have done more against untrained Frieza than he could though.

One Strip! One Strip!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23668: Aug 22nd 2015 at 3:37:58 PM

Daizenshuu 7 says he was, apparently. Piccolo also says that he's "in a completely different dimension," and while Supreme Kai does actually live in a different dimension that phrase comes up several times in DB, almost always in reference to personal strength.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23669: Aug 22nd 2015 at 3:40:04 PM

Which is what I explained the last time this topic came up.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#23670: Aug 22nd 2015 at 3:40:48 PM

Like I said, he never has that humanizing Vegeta or Piccolo element of "Hey, he really is a good guy now!" He just keeps on being evil, but it's to other evil people.

One, Anti-Hero is still a trope.

Hiei doesn't receive Draco in Leather Pants treatment like Vegeta, and that's a good thing. He's a demon, through and through, he doesn't discover The Power of Friendship. The humanizing parts of his character are Mukuro, Yukina, and his flashbacks to being reviled by his own people.

Honestly I don't see how you can like Vegeta and dislike Hiei. Hiei's less of an asshole, and far less stubborn - the worst thing he did after joining the good guys was be a Deadpan Snarker and admit to not giving a damn about Sensui's plot.

edited 22nd Aug '15 3:44:47 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23671: Aug 22nd 2015 at 3:46:35 PM

Vegeta isn't really leather-pantsed by the story itself. He's mostly just shown as pathetic.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#23672: Aug 22nd 2015 at 3:58:52 PM

yeah, the only really leather pants thing about him is that he became the Token Evil Teammate, but that doesn't really mean anything because he keeps getting trashed and humiliated all throughout the story.

edited 22nd Aug '15 3:59:39 PM by wehrmacht

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#23673: Aug 22nd 2015 at 4:16:44 PM

The only "in story" leather pants moment for Vegeta is him being proven pure of heart for the activation of Super Saiyan God.

The difference between Hiei and Vegeta is that while Hiei is not a good person, he still reforms from his criminal activity and legitimately works for law enforcement. Vegeta doesn't actually reform until Cell's final moments when he sees his son die, and even then has to be reformed again in the Buu saga.

Well, one difference. Hiei doesn't have the anger issues, or the blinding pride, or the near suicidal overconfidence. Vegeta does eventually outgrow the latter trait but Hiei recognizes it as a flaw right from the start.

Buldogue's lawyer
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#23674: Aug 22nd 2015 at 4:19:03 PM

It's funny how here on this thread, we've agreed that Vegeta constantly getting beaten and suffering The Worf Effect is why his character is so good. Whereas a lot of Vegeta fans say those were bad things.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#23675: Aug 22nd 2015 at 4:21:15 PM

I find Hiei kinda boring. Vegeta being a huge asshole is much more engaging.


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