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LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#23451: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:53:07 PM

I dunno, the Buu Saga sure liked ragging on Goku. I mean, that was the entire POINT of the Supreme Kai - to have some outsider show up and just start saying what the audience is thinking - how are these people so strong and yet so stupid?

Of course, then everyone ignored him, and he was proven to be wrong on a whole bunch of stuff, but still. He had a pretty interesting role before Buu was released.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#23452: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:54:30 PM

the funny thing is you could argue characters like naruto or luffy are inspired by goku, but they seem to misunderstand certain aspects of him. i know that people have gone over that before.

goku's not really STUPID per se, he just grew up isolated from society for most of his life and he's never really managed to fully overcome that.

goku and dragon ball as a whole don't really go on at length about nakama power from what i remember either, that seems to be a thing with mostly newer shounen and i think the only ones that really make a big deal out of it are Fairy Tail and One Piece.

edited 20th Aug '15 6:58:38 PM by wehrmacht

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23453: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:55:15 PM

Goku is, at the very least, an extremely able tactician, I'll give him that.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23454: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:00:18 PM

Luffy has been shown to be pretty smart in some ways (he was the one who made Vivi realize that people would die and you can't save everyone). There was also the thing with replacing the Going Merry, where he made the right choice and decided get a new ship (though that led into a whole new shit-storm).

Naruto..... was not properly trained for most of his life, and held back by not being taught how to properly use his power for many years. And the teachers he did get were lazy like Kakashi, or screwed up pretty often like Jiraiya. That being said, he was shown to be pretty damned clever at times (the turn all his clones into stones with the transformation trick during his fight with Pain for one).

Plus, as much as I hate him, I get the feeling he'll be a better dad and husband than Goku was, if only because he knows what it means.

One Strip! One Strip!
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#23455: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:01:43 PM

naruto also spends most of his time dicking around lol. not really like goku very much in that sense.

[up]most shounen heroes need to have some degree of battle ingenuity to get by. it's a pretty consistent necessity actually, otherwise they'd just lose.

edited 20th Aug '15 7:03:09 PM by wehrmacht

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23457: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:04:58 PM

Goku and Yusuke are incredibly different characters and I have no idea why people are comparing them.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23458: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:05:18 PM

When I speak of Naruto I mostly speak of Part 1 Naruto, who I hate. Ninja Jesus Naruto is sickening and has too many powers but I still prefer it to Part 1 where his arsenal included Shadow Clones, some more Shadow Clones and finally, his ultimate technique, even more Shadow Clones.

God his fights were so boring. It's why I never got the Sasuke hate until I got to Part 2. Sasuke always got his ass whipped in Part 1 but at least he had cool fights and he had a bit of variety.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23459: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:05:44 PM

[up][up]Cause they both have black hair and fire energy blasts.

And that's it.

edited 20th Aug '15 7:05:54 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#23460: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:05:49 PM

yyh is widely agreed to have deteriorated in quality in the final arc.

there's a lot of stuff being mentioned about how jump editors were on togashi's nuts for a lot of the series which ultimately had something to do with that, but i haven't bothered digging up any sources so i have no idea.

God his fights were so boring. It's why I never got the Sasuke hate until I got to Part 2. Sasuke always got his ass whipped in Part 1 but at least he had cool fights and he had a bit of variety.

the main reason i didn't like sasuke was because he basically felt like the blandest fusion of every shounen rival ever. it was only when we got the flashback to the uchiha massacre that i found it in me to care about him at all.

edited 20th Aug '15 7:07:01 PM by wehrmacht

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23461: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:06:40 PM

[up][up][up] What I hate about Sasuke is that he's a positively portrayed abusive romantic partner. He's Ninja Edward Cullen.

Vegeta committed genocide for his paycheck and he still loves his family.

edited 20th Aug '15 7:06:50 PM by HamburgerTime

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23462: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:09:43 PM

Sasuke was a good kid in Part 1. That was the whole point really and why I will never buy into the Itachi Was A Good Guy All Along bullshit. Sasuke was going to give up on his obsession and be happy with his new family, Team 7 and the village as a whole. Then he got mind tortured by his loving elder brother and it ruined his life for years afterward.

And yes I don't like Three Kings much but the ending is still very sweet.

edited 20th Aug '15 7:10:58 PM by Nikkolas

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23463: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:10:54 PM

Vegeta has murdered billions, possibly hundreds of billions if not trillions and enjoyed every second of it and he's still more likable than Sasuke.

[up]YMMV on being a 'good kid'. He was an ultimately not entirely rotten person during Part 1, but Part 2 revealed that all Uchiha eventually go fucking insane from their EVIL BRAIN CHAKRA, so Sasuke was doomed to go evil and insane either way.

edited 20th Aug '15 7:12:24 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23464: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:12:09 PM

Vegeta tries to beat up galaxy-destroying cats over slights to his family.

Sasuke leaves his and never comes back.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#23465: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:13:31 PM

well part of the reason for that is that dragon ball never really gasses vegeta up to be some sort of good guy. he spends a lot of time getting the shit beaten out of him or otherwise humiliated and all he ever is the Token Evil Teammate who mellowed out over a very long period of time.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23466: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:15:23 PM

Vegeta swallowed his pride to fuse permanently with the guy he'd simultaneously hated and respected, knowing he'd most likely cease to exist forever, when he heard that some fucking pink dude killed his family.

Sasuke... has never even kissed his 'wife', whom he tried to kill at least once, and can't recognize his daughter on sight.

Vegeta went on to eat his ego again in order to protect the planet he'd come to see as his home, and he did this by performing a ridiculously humiliating song and dance about bingo.

Sasuke gives approximately zero fucks about the state of his 'wife' and daughter's home.

When goddamn Vegeta is a better person than you are, you should be fired from life.

[up]This, too.

Naruto portrays some seriously rotten motherfuckers in positive lights. (Obito and Madara chief amongst them.)

By contrast... When he performed a Heroic Sacrifice against Fat Buu, Vegeta went to hell.

edited 20th Aug '15 7:17:41 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23467: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:16:25 PM

But that's kind of even worse. During the Cell Saga no one in-universe ever really acknowledges "Vegeta, you're kind of awful and only marginally better than the guys...no wait, you're probably more evil than Android 17 and 18. You're sure as shit more evil than 16."

But apparently Bulma and the others don't care that Vegeta nearly murdered them and everyone else while having a temper tantrum.

Also I thought Naruto was over? How do we know how Sasuke treats his family?

edited 20th Aug '15 7:17:22 PM by Nikkolas

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23468: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:18:33 PM

Wow.

Well, this ain't the Naruto thread (and I no longer care about that series), so I won't push the issue.

How many Kamis could Kamesennin Kamehameha if Kamesennin could kamehameha Kamis?tongue

......Sorry, I couldn't think of anything else to change the subject that we hadn't talked about before.

One Strip! One Strip!
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23469: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:19:34 PM

When did Vegeta go to Hell? I thought he kept his body.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23470: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:19:53 PM

Naruto is over, yeah, but they're basically putting it on life support with a few 'canonical' movies and some manga and novels to flesh things out. It's not worth the time and effort.

Anyway, during the Cell Saga, they don't really know that the Androids aren't the evil monsters that Trunks told them they are. Plus, Goku's down with a heart virus. Guess what? Vegeta's their sole chance at survival, because they know that he wants to fight Goku so they know he won't destroy the world until Goku's back on his feet to put him in his place.

Ergo, Vegeta's still the safer option. The devil you know, yanno.

[up]Vegeta didn't keep his body. He was given a body when he was sent to assist Goku against Majin Buu from the afterlife because everyone knew that letting Buu go free meant that there'd be a massive flood of souls to the afterlife, which nobody wanted, so they bent the rules to allow Vegeta and Goku to team up against him, on the basis that the only other option was waking Beerus up to murderize him, and that would result in a lot of destruction too.

edited 20th Aug '15 7:21:49 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23471: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:32:04 PM

Uh, you know you don't have to root for the protagonist right? The protagonist is only the central character; doesn't mean you can't like other characters more, the side characters are just as much legitimate characters as the protagonist is.

Also, I never said that character flaws make a character interesting, although they help; Goku is a more interesting protagonist than Yusuke because Yusuke is the most boring and unchanging character in all of shounen! He grows up from a punk to...slightly less of a punk.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23472: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:36:13 PM

[up]

But Goku didn't really grow up at all. I mean, he's still a man child. He's just a man child who became more aware of his love of fighting, and has decided time and time again that it's more important than anything, including his family.

One Strip! One Strip!
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#23473: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:37:10 PM

Goku is a more interesting protagonist than Yusuke because Yusuke is the most boring and unchanging character in all of shounen!

i have a hard time thinking of that many shounen heroes who grew up and substantially changed, outside of maybe Edward Elric?

i'm sure other people can name more though, i'll admit there's plenty i haven't read yet.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23474: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:40:28 PM

There's Yusuke Urameshi for one. Describing him as "unchanging" is objectively false.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23475: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:43:01 PM

[up][up][up]Nah, Goku stayed goofy but he clearly loves his family and he had his My God, What Have I Done? moment in the Cell Saga, as well as his 'grow up to become Earth's residential badass, son' arc in the Cell Saga and Buu Saga. Also he clearly understands what romantic love is: he bribed Elder Kai into helping Gohan with a date with Bulma.

[up]Yusuke matures a little over the course of the series but he never actually changes as a character. He always stays the same 'generic tough shounen protagonist who loves their friends but is too cool to admit it'.

edited 20th Aug '15 7:46:12 PM by PushoverMediaCritic


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