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BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#23426: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:19:40 PM

Yeah, what [up] said.

That line is taken out of context so much.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#23427: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:20:53 PM

[up][up]Said much better than I could have.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23428: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:22:20 PM

It's still funny though right?

One Strip! One Strip!
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23429: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:23:58 PM

TFS Vegeta is always hilarious.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#23430: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:26:20 PM

Case in point:

"The hell is soap?"

"It's that yellow block made of animal fat."

"THAT SOUNDS AWESOME!" -nom-

...

"BLAH, THAT TASTES NOTHING LIKE WHAT YOU JUST SAID!"

edited 20th Aug '15 6:26:30 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23431: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:26:57 PM

The theme of 'adapting to hardship to grow stronger': Goku and Krillin training with iron turtle shells, Goku doing the whole 'grab this bell' routine only with water after getting his butt stomped, Goku traveling around the world without Kinto-un and training his tail, Goku drinking poison water that might kill him to get more powerful, Goku training and getting used to weighted clothing, Goku training and getting used to increased gravity, Goku training to higher levels of Kaio-Ken, the entire concept of 'Zenkais', Goku's friend dying, transforming him into a Super Saiyan, Goku and Gohan training in a hellish limbo for a year, Gohan being unable to help people and ascending into Super Saiyan 2, and Goten and Trunks also training in the hellish limbo.

Spectacular writing indeed.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23432: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:33:03 PM

So every other shounen fighting manga ever except with a much less developed cast of characters.

You know who else overcame hardships? Yusuke Urameshi. And he did it while having a great character arc of growth and maturing from his bratty teenage days.

Goku grew up and decided that the lives of every last man, woman and child were of infinitely less import than his own bloodlust and entertainment.

Our hero.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#23433: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:34:23 PM

I wouldn't call the writing of Dragon Ball to be spectacular by any stretch of the imagination but it's certainly enjoyable.

Also, fuck you, Google. Dragon Ball is two words.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23434: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:36:00 PM

And that's what makes Goku a far more interesting protagonist than Yusuke: he isn't a hero and is actually kinda've a callous jerk. And it's justified because of his species.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23435: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:36:18 PM

[up][up] I've never been clear about that. I alternate between one word and two words. The official English name of the anime and manga is Dragon Ball I believe but I see the purists spell it Dragonball sometimes so... -shrug-

[up] If you want to root for the shitty person that is Adult Goku, be my guest. I like actual heroes. People who have had it rugh but overcome their adversity. Yusuke was a simple punk but he came to understand there are more important things in the world than himself and his issues.

That's why I can respect him and I can't respect Goku.

edited 20th Aug '15 6:38:39 PM by Nikkolas

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23436: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:38:01 PM

Goku didn't immediately decide that his own enjoyment of a fight was worth the lives of everyone around him.

That was always what he behaved like.

This is Dragon Ball. Everyone is a selfish jerk. No exceptions.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23437: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:38:07 PM

The only context where Dragonball is used is in The Movie That Shall Not Be Named.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#23438: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:38:25 PM

interesting protagonist =/= anti-hero

hero =/= uninteresting protagonist

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23439: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:40:17 PM

Yeah, but there's not much to Yusuke aside from 'used to be a delinquent'.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23440: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:41:07 PM

[up][up][up]'[up] Goku killed every villain he came across in DB except Pilaf's gang and Piccolo Jr. He only let Tao leave at first because he was showing mercy.

He didn't say "okay Mr. Tao sir, go off and murder more people because maybe someday we can fight again."

edited 20th Aug '15 6:41:34 PM by Nikkolas

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#23441: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:41:47 PM

[up][up]Yeah, but that wasn't your argument.

Your argument was that Goku was more interesting because he was a callous jerk.

edited 20th Aug '15 6:42:07 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23442: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:42:33 PM

[up][up]Yeah, and he stopped killing everybody once he trained with God who, presumably, doesn't approve of that shit.

[up]Huge, gaping character flaws tend to make for more three-dimensional characters.

edited 20th Aug '15 6:44:06 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#23443: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:43:39 PM

I wouldn't call the writing of Dragon Ball to be spectacular by any stretch of the imagination but it's certainly enjoyable.

more or less my opinion.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23444: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:44:34 PM

Looking back, it seems that Goku only started deciding not to kill specific enemies only after his training with Kami.

It's possible that it's because he gained enough control to beat enemies without killing them, and realized he could get better fights by sparing good rivals. If they were good enough to survive his hits, they could train up, grow stronger and give him a better fight down the line.

So Kid Goku, despite being a killer, was arguably a better hero than his adult self. How ironic.

One Strip! One Strip!
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#23445: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:45:07 PM

[up][up][up]Yeah, but again being a dick doesn't equal being more interesting.

edited 20th Aug '15 6:45:16 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23446: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:46:31 PM

More dimensions to a character = more interesting character.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#23447: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:48:40 PM

But dimensions don't necessarily have to be flaws.

Thinking that giving your character more flaws makes them more interesting means that you will often delve into Anti-Sue territory.

Think of Kratos from God of War. He's a terrible person with no redeeming qualities and tons of character flaws. And he's a boring character because that's all he is.

edited 20th Aug '15 6:50:42 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#23448: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:49:57 PM

i don't find goku a particularly interesting or compelling character honestly. fun to watch yes, but not really a great character in the literary sense.

i don't think the narrative really makes a big deal out of goku being some great flawed hero either, which is part of the reason why pushing that angle doesn't really work.

edited 20th Aug '15 6:50:26 PM by wehrmacht

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23449: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:51:42 PM

Goku doesn't really get that much development in the Z period. He's mostly just there to solve other people's problems. IMO Z is mostly about Gohan, Krillin, Vegeta, Piccolo, and later on, the kids.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23450: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:52:28 PM

Yusuke is a Book Dumb but overall rather intelligent strategist who grabs some ass while he isn't fighting. He will punch you and mock you as soon as anything else. He's funny, likable and just plain cool. He's just a normal kid who we see actually grow up over the course of the series. As opposed to Goku who got bigger but never grew up at all.

Quite frankly, he's a breath of fresh air from all other shounen protagonists who are just Idiot Heroes Big Eaters children who believe in FRIENDSHIP!

Goku has single-handedly spawned a generation of terrible characters and clones. The world would be a better place with more Yusuke's and less Naruto's or Luffy's.

Look at it this way. Most people accept the fact Goku never actually loved Chi Chi because he simply doesn't have the faintest clue what romantic love is. I don't tolerate that kind of shit. You don't string a woman along. Goku might not mean to do it but it's still wrong.

Yusuke actually loved Keiko and that is why YYH has such a beautiful ending.

@ Handsome Rob "So Kid Goku, despite being a killer, was arguably a better hero than his adult self. How ironic."

And this is why Dragon Ball and Kid Goku are some of my favoirte things in anime while DBZ and Adult Goku aren't.


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