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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23076: Aug 16th 2015 at 1:48:36 PM

Speaking of powerups, why was Piccolo + Kami a bigger boost than Piccolo + Nail? Nail was over 200 times stronger.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23077: Aug 16th 2015 at 1:49:01 PM

Way to misinterpret what I told you.

When Goku does the Super Saiyan forms demonstration, he is deliberately going through each of them. If he hadn't been doing that, he would have just gone to SSJ 3 from the get go and vaporized Buu. He was taking all the time in the world to delay Buu even more. We see that this is the case because it certainly doesn't take him five minutes to transform ever again.

[up]Because Piccolo + Nail was actual fusion, while Piccolo + Kami was The Nameless Namekian reuniting his halves.

edited 16th Aug '15 1:49:41 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23078: Aug 16th 2015 at 1:55:49 PM

[up]Way to assume I don't know this Manga like the back of my hand. Yeah he deliberately shows Fat Buu all three forms to stall, that's the entire point of the scene. My point was that no character has ever gone from base to SS 2 without passing SS 1 first and when Goku went from base to SS 3 he very clearly went through 1 and 2 along the way. And again, what I'm saying, that SS 2 and SS 3 are just extensions of SS 1 and are not completely separate transformations in their own right, is backed by Word of God so therefore you three have just been misinterpreting how Super Saiyans work this whole time.

edited 16th Aug '15 1:57:58 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#23079: Aug 16th 2015 at 2:06:03 PM

Saying Word of God means nothing if you don't have a source to back it up. And you saying that Goku goes through each one before three each time definitely clashes with what I remember.

edited 16th Aug '15 2:06:25 PM by LSBK

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#23080: Aug 16th 2015 at 2:16:58 PM

Guys you know that Super Sayian 2 and 3 are just powered up variants of Super Sayian 1, right?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23081: Aug 16th 2015 at 2:20:51 PM

Boom http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/saikyo-jump-june-2014-issue-twel-buu-mysteries/ I win.

[up]Exactly.

edited 16th Aug '15 2:21:57 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#23082: Aug 16th 2015 at 2:22:25 PM

What's this conversation's power level?

Gotta be pretty high, since it can wish itself back to life.

I have a message from another time...
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#23083: Aug 16th 2015 at 2:24:19 PM

[up][up]Well, that answers why Goku doesn't want to use them but that's not what we were discussing. That doesn't go along with why you said basic Super Saiyan is better. I also don't think anyone was arguing that they weren't just extensions of basic super saiyan.

edited 16th Aug '15 2:25:19 PM by LSBK

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#23084: Aug 16th 2015 at 2:26:02 PM

Okay, something relevant for a change.

Am I the only one who thinks that the Beerus in Super has a much more sinister feel to him than the one in the movie? In the movie he felt more quirky than anything, but in anime he looks like a psycho ready to lash out at any time, only stopped by his amazingly short attention span.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23085: Aug 16th 2015 at 2:27:33 PM

[up][up]Again, I didn't start this conversation. I never said that Super Saiyan 1 is the best form. What I said is that when you compare the three multipliers(SS 1: 50x, SS 2: 2x, and SS 3: 4x) Super Saiyan 1 is the largest by a landslide. And there were people arguing that.

[up]I think he's supposed to be a mix of both: quirky, goofy guy with a hair-trigger temper and the willingness to obliterate you from existence for just the most minor of offenses. He'd either get along well with Deadpool or they would HATE each other for their similarities.

edited 16th Aug '15 2:34:18 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#23086: Aug 16th 2015 at 2:36:40 PM

[up][up]Definitely some Adaptational Villainy going on; his antagonism was more of an Informed Ability in Battle of Gods, but here he very much feels....off.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23087: Aug 16th 2015 at 2:57:58 PM

I wonder how truly accurate that translation is, because it definitely clashes with their usage in the manga, in which they were noticeably distinct transformations. Yes, unlocking the second one requires the first, but you don't need to go through all of them every time you want to transform.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#23088: Aug 16th 2015 at 3:24:07 PM

Super Saiyan Three Vegeta? Guys?

My various fanfics.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23089: Aug 16th 2015 at 3:25:47 PM

SS3 is sort of a subversion of your typical shonen powerup in that its drawbacks almost make it not worth it. You can only make practical use out of it if you're dead.

edited 16th Aug '15 3:25:57 PM by HamburgerTime

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#23090: Aug 16th 2015 at 3:29:48 PM

I know why Goku doesn't use the power pole anymore. I was referencing how it's never seen connecting the tower to the lookout again since that happened. Everyone just seems to fly there.

That and I wanted it to be used to probe the depths of the ocean, at least to reference the thing's original purpose.

Buldogue's lawyer
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#23091: Aug 16th 2015 at 3:31:06 PM

I guess it was too much of a hassle to draw the pole anymore.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23092: Aug 16th 2015 at 3:31:49 PM

And keep in mind that at that point in the story flying was an exclusive club.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23093: Aug 16th 2015 at 3:41:37 PM

@I Am Not Creative Enough Yes you do. This has been one of my points this entire time. There has never been a situation where someone has ever transformed from base to SS 2 without going to SS 1 first. In addition, when Goku transformed from base to SS 3, his hair noticeably went through SS 1 and SS 2 first.

The only situation where this has ever not been the case is with Gotenks turning SS 3 and there are two easy explanations for that: fusions messes with how Super Saiyan works or Gotenks did actually go SS 2 while going SS 3 and it's just that Gotenks' hair wouldn't change in SS 2 so there was no noticeable physical change.

It actually sounds a little desperate for this frantic grasping at straws and you need to just accept that you're wrong, especially when your trying to argue against Word of God. This is how it is and this is how it has always been, just accept that you've lost this one and move on.

Re: Beerus. I like the new elaboration on Beerus' personality and it definitely helps paint him in a darker light.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#23094: Aug 16th 2015 at 3:58:14 PM

I think the easiest thing to say, to hopefully make peace between the parties, is that it's reasonable to say anyone who can achieve a higher level of super saiyan can also achieve a lower one.

I suppose the exceptions here are Super Saiyan four, which is kind of a misnomer anyway and Super Saiyan God, since one does not reach them entirely on their own merits.

Buldogue's lawyer
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23095: Aug 16th 2015 at 4:02:08 PM

Hey, you know why I know I'm right?

Because Goku knows more about the Super Saiyan form than you do, and he says that they are different transformations. If they weren't, he wouldn't treat them as such.

And I know that you don't need to go through all the forms because Gotenks can transform into SSJ 3 bypassing SSJ 2. By the by, saying "oh, there's two easy explanations for that!" means you need to make assumptions for your theory to hold water, which is in and of itself, a hole in your theory.

I really don't need any more arguments than that.

Though, this has clearly digressed from the original point, which was about how incredibly wrong you are about SSJ being the transformation with the biggest boost.

That's still SSJ 3, which makes the user eight times as powerful as SSJ.

edited 16th Aug '15 4:08:53 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#23096: Aug 16th 2015 at 4:05:39 PM

"Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more."

I wonder how truly accurate that translation is

...You're arguing the kanzenshuu guys? Really?

Pfft. Good luck.

I can't wait till Saiga walks in on this one.

You'd have an easier case arguing Toriyama is making shit up.

edited 16th Aug '15 4:11:05 PM by unnoun

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23097: Aug 16th 2015 at 4:11:04 PM

Am I arguing the Kanzenshuu guys?

Hm. No, I wouldn't be, because it wasn't them who wrote that, presumably. Well, it could be, at which case the entire thing would be utterly worthless now would it?

I don't believe I argued anybody in that. I believe my exact words were, as you quoted them, wondering how accurate the translation is.

PS: I don't need to say 'Toriyama is making shit up', because we all know that he is. I mean, that's the same interview in which he said Mr. Satan is a coward, which is blatantly not true given what we see in canon.

edited 16th Aug '15 4:13:27 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#23098: Aug 16th 2015 at 4:11:43 PM

You're arguing how good their translation is.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#23099: Aug 16th 2015 at 4:12:35 PM

Asking a question is not arguing.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23100: Aug 16th 2015 at 4:13:51 PM

[up][up]You keep using that word.

I do not think it means what you think it means.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari

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