@LSBK What? I wasn't the one who started this conversation, I just added to it like five comments in. And no, the Super Saiyan forms are stacking so Super Saiyan 1: 50x, Super Saiyan 2: 2x, and Super Saiyan 3: 4x. The 400x multiplier you got are Super Saiyan 1 + 2 + 3, not just 3, that makes no sense. Super Saiyan 1 gives, by FAR, the biggest increase out of any Super Saiyan form, 2 and 3 combined doesn't even come close!
Each super saiyan form is a base form multiplier. I don't know what logic your going on when you say SS 1 gives the biggest boost.
Speaking of Super Saiyan three, apparently Vegeta is going to transform next episode?
My various fanfics.The X50 multiplier is over simplified anyway. Remember the whole deal with mastering the form to make it more powerful, back in the Cell Saga?
It kind of annoys me that the series clearly threw out numbers for a reason, then a bunch of guides came out insisting these were the official numbers for the characters no longer using numbers.
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Except they're not: Super Saiyan 1 is a 50x base multiplier, Super Saiyan 2 requires you be in Super Saiyan 1 first and is therefore a 2x SS 1 multiplier, Super Saiyan 3 presumably works the same way(kinda hard to tell since there's only two users of the transformation and one of them is a fusion) and is therefore a 4x SS 2 multiplier. The multipiers stack on top on each other and when you're comparing 50x, 2x and 4x it's no contest: Super Saiyan 1 gives the biggest boost onto the previous state by FAR.
Mastering Super Saiyan 1 didn't make it stronger: just that both alternatives sucked(Ascended drains energy and Ultra drains energy and makes you slow) so Goku and Gohan opted for control over power.
edited 16th Aug '15 12:18:46 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
That's not how the transformations work at all. Each form is it's own different state. That's why each form is a different multiplier of the Base state. When people say Super Saiyan 2 is x2 Super Saiyan, that's just doing the math in their head.
And Gotenks went from 1 to 3.
edited 16th Aug '15 12:27:06 PM by VeryMelon
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Yeah, thinks for proving my point: Goku showed Super Saiyan 1 and than, without reverting to base, went Super Saiyan 2, than he reverted back to base and started transforming into Super Saiyan 3, very clearly passing Super Saiyans 1 and 2 along the way. The real Drogon Ball does not work like Xenoverse, where you get Super Saiyan 1 or 2 or 3. The way the real Dragon Ball works is 1, than 2, than 3.
Gotenks is a fusion and may have unknowingly unlocked Super Saiyan 2. Goku's demonstration makes it pretty blatant how Super Saiyan works.
edited 16th Aug '15 12:32:57 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
It's connecting Karin's Tower to God's Lookout.
To reach God, Goku had to climb to the roof of the tower, plant the power pole in a special slot, then extend it all the way up. It's been there ever since.
Until that point, he had been bludgeoning people with what is effectively a Cosmic Keystone that unlocks the heavens.
edited 16th Aug '15 12:40:43 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Right. They needed a Namekian for the Dragon Balls.
Like, there's not really a reason why it couldn't be Krillin or Bulma or somesuch, but they can't make Dragon Balls, so we would have to be comfortable never wishing anyone back to life ever again.
Y'know, between the Dragon Balls and Saiyans, Earth's history has been pretty much completely defined by alien intervention.
edited 16th Aug '15 12:48:37 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.@Very Melon Well, they do, if you look at in in a weird, obtuse way. Super Saiyan 2's multiplier is 2x but if you add it with Super Saiyan 1's multiplier of 50x, it makes a total multiplier of 100x but that's not the multiplier for Super Saiyan 2: that's the multiplier for SS 1 + SS 2. Oh, and not once does a character ever go from base straight to Super Saiyan 2 in the entire series.
Oh, and before I forget: Toriyama said this himself! He specifically said that SS 2 and SS 3 were just extensions of SS 1 and are not alternate forms in their own right. It's not a retcon: you guys were just thinking about it the wrong way the whole time.
Re: God of Earth. My headcanon is that the previous God was both stronger than Kami and a Human.
edited 16th Aug '15 12:53:35 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
All the transformations are multipliers of the base form. If SS2 is literally SS1x2 and SS1 is just Basex50 then stands to reason that SS2is Basex100. Same for SS3 being Basex400. That no one has shown the ability to skip whole forms to get to another besides the one character you wrote off because it didn't suit your narrative doesn't make you right about SS2 ans SS3 being worse than SS1.
All of this is moot because we've seen that Goku can go straight from base to super saiyan 3. That they first discovered the other forms before going to higher ones doesn't prove that the transformations are stacking on top of each other, it's just that they weren't at a point were they could do them yet. It took Goku seven years to achieve super saiyan 2 and work his way to 3.
Hah, Goten and Trunks were playing Splatoon in the new episode of Super. :P
what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else![]()
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I never said that Super Saiyans 2 and 3 were worse than 1, what I said was that Super Saiyan 1's multiplier is so ludicrously high that it makes 2 and 3 look pathetic. Check my above edit: I have Word of God backing me up on this.
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When Goku transforms from base to 3 his hair very specifically passes 1 and 2 along the way.
edited 16th Aug '15 1:48:01 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

It wouldn't be just fan service, though that would definitely be a reason for doing it. World building would be another.
I gave Krillen and 18 different plots for a reason. Krillen would handle the crime syndicate-family-patriarch escalation on his own, as part of doing his job, but the point of them would also be to touch on the groups who felt they got the short end of stick when royalty appeared out of nowhere and took control of the globe(by using the dragon balls), to show what happened to the "power pole" (which in Journey To The West was used to measure the depth of the ocean), why an item belonging to an emperor was lost and some of that emperor's other treasures(which the crime syndicate would be using to try and take over the world and get revenge on the current royal family before being stopped by Krillen). Marron wouldn't actually need to be involved, just that she exists would be enough for parallels as a father between with the nemesis to be drawn.
The man eating plant would give one an idea about what was around during prehistoric "Earth" (modern "Earth" has live dinosaurs, so we already know prehistoric times must have been very different) as well as touch on what other members of the scientific community are doing in the biology department. We've already seen zoology and biomechanics gone wrong with Dr. Gero, why not see two of his works deal with an abomination revived by misguided conservation and botany? We already know from the sensu beans that "Earth" is capable of supporting some incredible plants, one that's not so nice to have around is a logical step.
Yamcha's evil diva problem gives a chance to see just how people wind down from the grind, to who else they look up to. We know martial arts contests are popular sporting events and baseball exists, we even have hints of "adult" literature but not much about other forms of entertainment. What else is mainstream?
Tao Pai boasted to have killed everything from peasants to kings with his dodonpa. Tien took up the Crane teachings to be a killer like Tao, not a martial artist. He had already surpassed Tao in that regard by his first appearance, it was mass murder Roshi didn't think he was up to. It becomes clear then that there is a lot of blood on the hands of Hermit Crane, his family and his students. A building haunted and warped by those various vengeful victims wouldn't just be there to give Tien and Choazu something to fight, it would also be a way to explore some of Crane's legacy.
The Room Of Spirit And Time, The Hyberbolic Time Chamber, it's door passes the boundaries of three dimensional space and leads to a seemingly infinite white room. Now the fact that it's a "door" means movement is still 3D, no 'wrong turns' can be made, but it represents possibilities of motion most people don't even dream about. When the door was first broken, Buu and Gotenks got back to Earth just fine but the possibilities for something going wrong are endless. The displaced and understandably confused\angry Clock Roaches for Piccolo to round up would be demonstrative of the things that could go wrong when dealing with that kind of thing.
An alien scout who determined Majin Buu came from Earth and the UCAV(UCSV) wouldn't just be something for the Saiyaman duo and Gotenks to fight with, it would give some weight to the whole "universal terror" is living on Earth thing. Majin Buu was worse than the saiyans, worse than Freeza, and caused an immeasurable amount of property destruction and death throughout the cosmos not too long ago. Sure, most of the people on Earth don't remember it but what about those other seven some planets? There should be more consequences for that right?
Even with the Videl-Spovitch return\lookalike\whatever(which wasn't entirely my idea) would be acknowledging what a huge event it was to the general populace, just because it was largely inconsequential to the protagonists and initially brushed over due to bigger things at the time. A demonstration that Videl has been raising her battle power while Gohan's has been atrophying would be a nice contrast between them as a couple too.
Haven't thought with the sea monsters beyond giving Fat Buu more humorous moments but if I was actually working on a Dragon Ball project it wouldn't just stop at that. What surprises me is proposals for 5-8 wholly unrelated scenarios that lead to new kinds of fights in a(no longer)fight manga get called shallow and pointless. If you have a deep roster of fighters, why not use them a little? It's not asking for them all to get their own spinoff books, just a little time doing something. The fact their power levels are all over the place at this point is actually a benefit, as not every new enemy has to be stronger than Majin Buu and every conflict doesn't have to have the continued existence of the setting at stake.
Contrary to "just" doing it so someone could have a fight, as if that's such a bad thing, the longest any would last once the protagonist actually got to the fighting part would be a day. World building and character development\insight would be just as much reason. Having more interesting fights would be just as much reason as giving someone one. There's only so much Goku\Vegeta can do and they can't be everywhere all the time. Some problems solved without them would reinforce the idea they don't have to be and would make scenes where Freezer is now stronger than ever and their needed back more powerful.
The "anime" has already done stuff like this with Fake Planet Namek, the Garlic Junior Saga and The Other World Tournament before anyway. A new series is an opportunity to do that stuff right and actually flesh out the world, rather than as stuffed in filler needed because the manga isn't coming out with new material fast enough.
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