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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23026: Aug 16th 2015 at 8:40:45 AM

Well my math was always kinda poor.

I feel like if it was reversed, Goku could have still put up a fight if he was 25% weaker.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23027: Aug 16th 2015 at 8:42:38 AM

A difference of ~1200 was enough to make Piccolo and Goku completely unable to even scratch Radditz. They literally could not harm him without their most powerful techniques.

Differences in power level are relative.

The difference of 30.000.000 would mean nothing if your powerlevel is currently amongst the billions.

And yes, Goku would've put a better fight because, unlike Freeza, Goku actually knows how to fight someone stronger than himself, and how to boost his power to catch up, and how to make up for the difference in other ways.

Freeza could not, and that was why he got his ass kicked so hard.

edited 16th Aug '15 8:43:42 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Reservoir A former adventurer... from Eastern US Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
A former adventurer...
#23028: Aug 16th 2015 at 8:46:08 AM

Wow, can't believe I forgot about the power level business. Also, the manga. DERP. Yeah, 30 million is a pretty large gap. I kinda hate it, though, as it kinda breaks the fight. Fights between even fighters tend to be much more exciting, hence why I referenced the anime fight. I still hate Frieza for starting the transformation trend. It's kinda funny how similar his transformations are to the Sayian ones, if you match SS1 with his base form. His second form has a larger body, greater power, and spikier...spikes? His third form is even stronger, with an elongated head (super-lengthened hair, anyone), and his fourth form is very different from the rest, but still visibly similar enough to identify (Super Saiyan 4).

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23029: Aug 16th 2015 at 8:46:40 AM

.....

So now I think it might have been better if Goku had the 120 000 000 power level.

I mean, think about it. Not only would Frieza have lost, and not just to a dirty monkey, but he would lose to a monkey that was still weaker than him.

Am I on to something here?

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#23030: Aug 16th 2015 at 8:55:19 AM

@IANCE My only issue with that is the change is noticed upon the first battle with the Androids. That was where 17/18 killed everyone in the future timeline, here they don't and it's immediately concluded they're less evil.

Of course, another theory put forward is that the difference starts because Kuririn holds back. In the future, he charges forward and the Androids decide to kill everyone. In the present, he hesitates because he now has knowledge of the timeline where the Androids kill him, and the Androids leave. I quite like that idea as well, but my preferred answer is still Gero messing with them some more in the future timeline.

I like to attribute it to the three years of training. An attack that would put post-training Vegeta face down in the ground would put pre-training Vegeta six feet under it. They used the same level of strength, but the protagonists were able to survive it.

But yes, they are explicitly identified as less evil than their Future counterparts so that's the primary answer.

I still hate Frieza for starting the transformation trend.

Zarbon did it first.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23031: Aug 16th 2015 at 8:55:21 AM

Nah, Freeza losing to someone weaker than himself but more skilled would have been a FAR lesser blow to his pride than losing to someone stronger, considering how much Freeza valued his status as strongest in the universe.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#23032: Aug 16th 2015 at 9:00:31 AM

You're onto a fight that Goku couldn't have won. And it would have been bullshit if the super secret ultra prophecy was still weaker than the bad guy.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23033: Aug 16th 2015 at 9:04:16 AM
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23034: Aug 16th 2015 at 9:24:25 AM

Hilariously, the super secret prophecy bullshit was bullshit anyway because Super Saiyan isn't some sort of super duper legendary transformation, it's something every Saiyan can do if strong and motivated enough.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#23035: Aug 16th 2015 at 9:28:49 AM

Yes, but AT THE TIME, it was the Ultra super mega legend.

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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23036: Aug 16th 2015 at 9:39:41 AM

It doesn't change the fact that they were hilariously wrong about it.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#23037: Aug 16th 2015 at 9:43:33 AM

It's not a prophecy, it's a legend. That it only happens once every 1,000 years is a mistranslation of Vegeta's statement that the last time it happened was 1,000 years ago. He was relaying history, not recounting prophecy.

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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23038: Aug 16th 2015 at 9:45:41 AM

Still hilarious.

They're like "this is the biggest deal ever!"

And then Goku's like "bitch my son made a second level and I got up to a THIRD. Super Saiyan ain't shit!"

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#23039: Aug 16th 2015 at 9:48:01 AM

True. It's 'cause Goku got it first, I think.

If Vegeta became the Super Saiyan, he'd be all, "Haha, I have the ultimate power now, nothing can surpass this!"

But Goku got it, and he's a martial artist, so he was all, "This is neat! Well, time to work on mastering it and figuring out all the little quirks of how it works in order to maximize my combat efficiency."

Then Vegeta had to play keep-up and couldn't just be content with being the strongest thing ever.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#23040: Aug 16th 2015 at 9:51:03 AM

Isn't Toriyama saying that the regular Super Saiyan form is the best?

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#23041: Aug 16th 2015 at 9:54:14 AM

[up] It's the most practical, at least.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#23042: Aug 16th 2015 at 9:58:47 AM

Which is weird, because logically Super Saiyan two is the best. Even stronger, even faster, no serious drawbacks like Super Saiyan three.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#23043: Aug 16th 2015 at 10:00:27 AM

[up]

Yeah.

What the fuck Toriyama?

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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23044: Aug 16th 2015 at 10:01:52 AM

Super Saiyan 3 is actually the best. The power boost really does offset the massive drawbacks. If you can't kill it before the drawbacks of SSJ 3 start to affect you, then there was no way in hell SSJ 2 would have defeated it.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23045: Aug 16th 2015 at 10:11:25 AM

To be fair, 1 gives a bigger boost than 2 and 3 combined and, though I think they were physically capable, non of the base Saiyans had actually surpassed Freeza's full power by the time Battle of Gods happened(with the exception of Gohan but he had all of the non-God power he would ever have unlocked by magic, so he doesn't count).

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#23046: Aug 16th 2015 at 10:21:45 AM

No it doesn't, super saiyan 2 and 3 give a comparatively small boast when talking about the regular super saiyan form but their boast to base is miles ahead of the regular form. And that's what really matters.

edited 16th Aug '15 10:22:25 AM by LSBK

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#23047: Aug 16th 2015 at 10:27:40 AM

Not really, when it comes to fights: even if someone's base is stronger than yours, if you have one higher Super Saiyan form over the opponent; you're almost always winning that fight. The thing that matters isn't how much stronger than base each level makes you, the thing that matters is how much of a difference is there between you and a person one level below you.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#23048: Aug 16th 2015 at 10:45:10 AM

Super Saiyan: x50

Super Saiyan 2: x100

Super Saiyan 3: x400

Super Saiyan God: Priceless.

For everything else, there's Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#23049: Aug 16th 2015 at 11:03:16 AM

...I'm surprised this joke hasn't been made earlier.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#23050: Aug 16th 2015 at 11:05:01 AM

[up][up][up]No, between Super Saiyan being times 50 base and 2 and 3 being times 100 and 400 base. It's obvious which ones are better.

Seeing as the only times super saiyans fought was in the Buu saga with Goku and Vegeta and we have no reason to think that's going to happen again I don't see how that's at all relevant. It's not like they're constantly fighting enemy super saiyans. That the latter two are relatively small multipliers of the first transformation means nothing when ultimately they're all multipliers of the base form.

Edit: And seeing as you were the one originally arguing that Super Saiyan 1 was better than the other two I'm not really sure what you were trying to prove with that comment. That you were wrong?

edited 16th Aug '15 11:08:36 AM by LSBK


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