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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#22851: Aug 14th 2015 at 5:44:25 PM

Genki is Spirit Energy. The Spirit Bomb, Kikoho, and Spirit Ball(?) all use this alternate type of energy and, at least for the Kikoho and Spirit Bomb, are implied to be dangerous for the person's who are having their Spirit Energy drained. Nowhere has it ever been implied that running out of Ki kills you. Just admit that I'm right, jeez.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#22852: Aug 14th 2015 at 5:52:13 PM

Anyone else think the Saiyans may be an artificial race? Their near-infinite potential for powerups, plus their fight-loving personalities, strike me as almost too perfect for a race of warriors. I can actually see the PTO having either created them outright or experimented on an existing race to create their ultimate soldier.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#22853: Aug 14th 2015 at 5:58:00 PM

Well, running out of ki seems to map fairly well with exhausting yourself with overexertion (Piccolo vs 17 is one example), and you can kill yourself through exhaustion, so you could possibly kill yourself by using too much ki.

I have a message from another time...
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#22854: Aug 14th 2015 at 6:01:12 PM

Kikioh is the "tri beam" right? I've been spoiled by the translations used in the video games.

Anyway no, "life force", Ki and whatever the 16-18 have are all superficially similar but ultimately different forms of power people in Dragon Ball use. At least they were when introduced? Maybe that changed at some point?

As for Kaioken. The best Goku managed was X20. King Kai said going higher than a double would damage the user's body. He was already pushing his luck going ten times higher than the "safe" point. Only a handful of people have seen him use it directly, likely picked up on the draw backs and then he cut it out entirely. I'd say if there was any technique that was impossible for the rest to learn it seems to be instant transmission. Kid\Pure Buu picked it up after only seeing it once but despite having it demonstrated to them time and time again, even having how he uses it explicitly explained to them, Goku's friends and family still haven't figured it out.

Buldogue's lawyer
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#22855: Aug 14th 2015 at 6:02:27 PM

The Kikouhou is the Tri-Beam, yes. The Shin Kikouhou is the Neo Tri-Beam.

The games sometimes call it the Ki Blast Cannon which is a bit closer to what it actually means (Ki Control Cannon).

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#22856: Aug 14th 2015 at 6:38:27 PM

Dr. Wheelo's brain really was just that big.

How do you think his body got destroyed?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#22857: Aug 14th 2015 at 6:38:46 PM

Okay, so touching back a bit, the reason I took Abo and Cado to be as strong as final form Freeza is because final form Freeza wasn't a secret anymore after Namek, him being locked in it after being repaired. The (mistaken) idea that Vegeta killed makes sense too because as far as everyone else knows, Freeza followed Vegeta to Earth and died. Future Trunks came in and out of existence so he was easy to miss.

Also of interest, Freeza says that he didn't want his dad brought back because he didn't like taking orders from him. This implies on of two things. 1: Freeza respects his father, or 2: His father was strong enough to make him follow orders, at least before Freeza's strength increased after the repair process. Well, both could be true since Freeza did say his parents were the only ones capable of injuring his true form.

Also, since Maximum Hormone's song is now official and you all have shown me the English translation, that must mean the species Freeza and King Cold mutated from is in the hominid genus, since "No human rights." are described as a trait of the dictator's rule.

Buldogue's lawyer
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#22858: Aug 14th 2015 at 6:47:01 PM

I don't think Cold was ever supposed to be as strong as 100% Frieza, with or without cybernetics.

Reservoir A former adventurer... from Eastern US Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
A former adventurer...
#22859: Aug 14th 2015 at 6:47:45 PM

On the subject of the Kaioken: I personally think that, eventually, anyone who trained with King Kai could learn the technique. Heck, I honestly believe Piccolo could do the x2 or x3 variant, since his body regenerates pretty well. It's just that, by the point the could use it, the main crew and their enemies were just too far ahead of them for it to matter. I do find it funny that Goku had trouble with King Kai's planet having 10x gravity, and yet Yamcha, Tein, Chaotzu, and Piccolo had no issues at all...

Also, if Piccolo could even to the Kaioken x2 (which, if he knew the technique, he could've likely done during the Android saga) that'd put him close to Super Saiyan 2 power, yeah? I mean, after he fused with Kami, he was able to handle 17, and 17 & 18 were stronger than Super Saiyans. Thus, with the x100 SS2 multiplier being twice as strong as the x50 SS1 multiplier, and with Piccolo > SS1, then Piccolo + (Kaioken x2) > SS2?

edited 14th Aug '15 6:49:50 PM by Reservoir

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#22860: Aug 14th 2015 at 6:52:59 PM

Piccolo in base is about as strong as Goten in Super Saiyan.

Twice or thrice that would be impressive.

edited 14th Aug '15 6:53:18 PM by unnoun

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#22861: Aug 14th 2015 at 7:06:09 PM

I've been thinking.

Gohan was always going to get weaker. Most of Gohan's gains during the Android Saga came from the fact that Gohan was completely focused on training all the time, out of a borderline desperate need to become stronger because of an encroaching threat. Either the three years with Goku and Piccolo, or the non-stop year in the HTC with Goku. Gohan was always going to get weaker, even if he kept training, because he wasn't training with the constant spectre of death and the impending obliteration of the human race standing over him. It's like any athlete during an off-season, or a fighter between fights. When you're not striving towards a goal, even if you're still working, you're going to deteriorate from your peak.

My various fanfics.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#22862: Aug 14th 2015 at 7:08:20 PM

Gohan, after everything he's seen, became a normal guy.

That's arguably the most impressive feat seen in this series.

Reservoir A former adventurer... from Eastern US Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
A former adventurer...
#22863: Aug 14th 2015 at 7:08:36 PM

[up][up] I think that sums up why Goku and Vegeta are badass; even when there's no immediate threat to focus on, they're capable of not only maintaining their staggering strength, but even improving it. Gohan's the perfect example of what would happen if they decided to take time off from training.

[up]That's...well...um... *goes on and rethinks his life*

edited 14th Aug '15 7:09:27 PM by Reservoir

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#22864: Aug 14th 2015 at 7:08:48 PM

[up][up][up]Unless you are Goku or Vegeta, who train all the time, threat or not.

I do think you have a point there.

Edit: [nja]'ed straight to hell it seems.

[up][up]

......You might be on to something there man.

edited 14th Aug '15 7:09:53 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#22865: Aug 14th 2015 at 7:50:43 PM

Goku & Vegeta will keep on training to improve because its their biological nature to do so, so they'll always be ready for any new threat that shows up. But they have No Social Skills and really aren't suited for "normal" life; to Goku & Vegeta, pushing your body to its limits is as normal as it gets.

I don't think Gohan is any less of a badass because he doesn't have that drive, especially since he'd rather put towards something he feels is worthwhile. It makes him wholly weak and not much help against guys that are on Goku or Vegeta's levels, but he's still the strongest fighter outside of those two at least.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#22866: Aug 14th 2015 at 7:52:56 PM

I've said that thing about Gohan like twice now in the past.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#22867: Aug 14th 2015 at 7:55:38 PM

Yea, but people seem to need to be reminded that he doesn't need to be the strongest there ever was.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#22868: Aug 14th 2015 at 7:56:55 PM

For the umpteenth time, though, Gohan is stronger than everyone in base, and most of the powered-up forms too.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#22869: Aug 14th 2015 at 8:05:39 PM

I'm sorry, Melon. I wasn't trying to take credit for your idea I had it independently. :(

My various fanfics.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#22870: Aug 14th 2015 at 8:05:49 PM

So why is Trunks tall? Both of his parents are short, and height is mostly dominant. note 

edited 14th Aug '15 8:07:03 PM by unnoun

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#22871: Aug 14th 2015 at 8:07:54 PM

One thing I always get shit about is when I say "[X Character] is not a saiyan" when being critical about a piece of fanfic. Mostly happens with Naruto fanfic though.

The thing is... I bring up that comparison for a reason.

Most shonen protagonists have reasons why they train as hard as they do. Well, when they do train and aren't just handed power on a silver platter, anyway.

The difference with Goku is that he doesn't need a reason to train and get stronger. He will train and get stronger because that's what Goku is and what Goku does, it's his race's hat, it's the one thing in life he finds nothing but joy in. Goku got massively stronger over a seven year peace period even though he had no real objective to train towards achieving, while your average shonen hero would get massively weaker under the same circumstances.

It's... kind of odd, but even something as stupid and simple as this is actually part of the reason why I prefer Goku so much over your average shonen action hero. Despite the fact that he does have all the good genetics and crazy powerups that your average shonen action hero does, it feels a lot more justified to have them when he is a member of a race that seems to be genetically predisposed to being fighting-obsessed lunatics.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#22872: Aug 14th 2015 at 8:11:16 PM

Ginyu thought Saiyans were weak.

Most Saiyans were.

Goku was third class. Was a worthless, bottom of the barrel, complete garbage of a fighter naturally.

Goku's strength isn't nature. It's nurture.

edited 14th Aug '15 8:17:18 PM by unnoun

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#22873: Aug 14th 2015 at 8:12:56 PM

Vaguely related, but I wonder, were there other "super-elites" in the PTO apart from Vegeta and Cui? They might be interesting antagonists for DBS if they're out there and have been training.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#22874: Aug 14th 2015 at 8:17:40 PM

[up][up] They were also growing in strength rapidly enough for Freeza to consider them a potential threat and blow them the fuck up. Given what little we know, Goku is a perfect example of what Saiyans could have become under the right circumstances.

Also, his strength is partially genetic because of all those fucking zenkai and the Super Saiyan transformations.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012

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