Yo, Son Goku And His Friends Return showed that Goten and Trunks had become as strong as Freeza, in base. Goku was strong enough to defeat two beings as strong as Freeza fused with just super saiyan...then again they had just been through a battle with Goten and Trunks, but the point stands. The entire point of that special was what if people of Freeza's caliber invaded Earth when it had Buu Saga level fighters on it, the message was "the kids will handle it, and wouldn't even need super saiyan". Everyone else got involved not because Abocado actually had a chance of defeating them, but because he was starting to cause collateral damage.
Buldogue's lawyerNo but he did sense him several times. Also, he saw him when he read Krillin's mind.
edited 14th Aug '15 2:25:04 PM by Zelenal
Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!25.000.000 or so?
Hm...
That would make Gotenks SSJ 3 around the vicinity of 400.000.000... Nah, that's far too small, considering they were stronger than Super Buu as SSJ 3 Gotenks.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariDo we know how much the Fusion Dance increases the power?
Fusion tends to be greater than the sum of its parts.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.To my knowledge, we know it's not as good as the Potara and that's it.
If the Fusion Dance is even as good as Namekian Fusion, they might get a free order of magnitude from it just 'cause. When Piccolo and Nail merged, even hitting 100,000 would have been a stretch, but they got to tack an extra 0 onto the end for 1,000,000 just from the Fusion alone.
If we do the same for the hypothesized powers IANCE proposes, SS 3 Gotenks becomes around 4,000,000,000 instead.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
I'm assuming that powers are added and then multiplied. A low multiplier, but even a x2 would be obscenely huge, since it means SSJ 3 goes from x400 to x800.
Using that, we'd get Gotenks at 800.000.000. A more likely number, but still a bit low, all things considered.
x3? That's 1.2 Billion, still too low.
(Keep in mind that the very weakest Goku could possibly be at as a SSJ 3 - weaker than Super Buu - is 1.2 billion, since he had a powerlevel of 3 million when he fought Freeza in Namek... and he's much, much stronger than that).
Maybe a flat x10? 4.000.000.000 seems like a high enough number to sell it.
And it also explains how Goku and Vegeta doing the Fusion Dance was enough to murderize Super Janemba even as Super Saiyan, since they'd be Goku + Vegeta x500, which is almost certainly superior to Goten + Trunks x 4000.
edited 14th Aug '15 3:09:46 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariHmm, even 4 billion seems too low for Super Buu.
We don't know much about Goku's battle power other than that it's lower than Frieza's in Base. This means that as a Super Saiyan 3, Goku's battle power is somewhere between 1.2 billionHEY and 48 billionHEY . Probably closer to the 48 billion than the 1.2 billion.
While he believed his full power would have been sufficient for Fat and Pure Buu, Goku openly acknowledges that even at Super Saiyan 3, he could not handle Super Buu. For Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks to carry the fight Goku himself did not think he could win, they would need to be closer to, or even beyond the 48 billion mark.
edited 14th Aug '15 3:10:54 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.On the other hand, if you just ignore the special, like I do, you can just increase Goten and Trunks' base powers so you don't need to boost Fusion so insanely.
Which also meshes with my theory that Super Saiyan has a minimum power floor and that's why nobody ever transformed until Goku broke into the millions.
If Goten and Trunks have a powerlevel of ~1.000.000 instead of ~500.000, the numbers start to become a lot more manageable. If the very lowest powerlevel you can have to transform is 3 million, that puts them at at least 3 million powerlevel, which means that they could be somewhere around ~24 B as SSJ 3 Gotenks.
If Goku doesn't break 60 million, then that makes Gotenks still be stronger than Goku. Say, with 50 Million in base he'd be at 20 Billion as SSJ 3. Still large.
I don't really think that Goku's base power was that close to Freeza's full power. I don't think we need to assume Goku's powerlevel was 119.999.999.
edited 14th Aug '15 3:18:17 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariPlus, they'd also be weaker than Gohan was at their age, which is explicitly not the case. Keep in mind that this is after they train up so they can do SSJ 3 as Gotenks while in the Hyperbaric Tank Charger.
Remember that Gohan endured some pretty harsh training to prepare for the coming of the androids, from both Goku and Piccolo.
edited 14th Aug '15 3:20:06 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariWhich isn't unexpected. The other two forms of Fusion do.
As previously noted, Namekian Fusion results in something FAR beyond the sum of its parts.
And then there's the Potara.
- 400 Gokus < Super Buu
- 100 Vegetas = 100 Gokus
- 1 Gohan > Super Buu
- 50 Vegitos > Super Buu + Gohan + Goten + Trunks + Piccolo
Frankly, I don't know why you guys are expecting the Fusion Dance to be reasonable.
edited 14th Aug '15 3:23:37 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.If you're going by the anime (and, in this case, I am all for that), 1 Vegetto > 1 Super Buu + Gohan + Goten + Trunks + Piccolo.
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