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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#22226: Aug 5th 2015 at 12:46:06 PM

Speaking of Dabura, according to Daizenshuu 7 Gohan was actually in SS 2 when they fought; thus Dabura was probably actually stronger than Cell since I doubt Gohan was that much weaker.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#22227: Aug 5th 2015 at 12:49:15 PM

I thought Babadi and Bibidi were the same person because Toriyama is on drugs.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#22228: Aug 5th 2015 at 12:49:45 PM

Quite.

Babidi's story might have ended very differently if he could just make peace with the fact that the uncontrollable god-killing abomination is Awesome, but Impractical when he already has a warrior in his possession who is more powerful than every living thing and every heavenly being, and is willing to obey orders.

edited 5th Aug '15 12:50:06 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#22229: Aug 5th 2015 at 1:03:19 PM

[...]every heavenly being[...]

Beerus and Whis say "Hi."

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#22230: Aug 5th 2015 at 1:05:21 PM

I don't think Whis counts. He's a Whis.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#22231: Aug 5th 2015 at 1:13:43 PM

They don't count because Majin Buu doesn't stand any more of a chance in a fight with Beerus than Dabura does.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#22232: Aug 5th 2015 at 1:40:14 PM

Ya know, when you point out how amazing some of the feats of the series are, it kinda rings it home how far the Power Creep has come.

Overshadowed by Awesome is RAMPANT in this series, Jesus.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#22233: Aug 5th 2015 at 2:13:07 PM

@Hamburger Time and yet other sources say he was a Super Saiyan 1. It's kind of a huge debate due to nothing being really clear.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#22234: Aug 5th 2015 at 2:14:29 PM

Dabura honestly seems like a character who should've been the Big Bad of an arc being transposed into a completely different arc as a henchman to me.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#22235: Aug 5th 2015 at 2:20:01 PM

That's kind of the point of Buu. As a god-killing abomination, Buu is so phenomenally powerful as to be obscene even by the ridiculous standards we've become accustomed to by the end of the Cell Saga. Goku and Vegeta became complacent about the fact that they're the most powerful things in existence and refused to take Majin Buu seriously. That was the entire point of the Majin Vegeta battle; it was a mistake on both parts, because Vegeta assumed that their rematch was the real priority here and Goku considered Vegeta a more dangerous foe than whatever stupid thing Babidi's doing right now.

Vegeta never should have given himself to Babidi and Goku never should have accepted Vegeta's challenge, but they did because Babidi had already demonstrated that the best he had to offer was child's play compared to them. Neither of them understood what they were dealing with until it was too late and Buu had already awakened - and even then, though he finally understood the threat potential, Vegeta still thought he could handle it. He was so very wrong.

So we get Dabura and he seems terrifying enough as The Dragon to Babidi and we think yes, this is sufficient. Goku and Vegeta have their rematch and we think this is the climax, because nothing tops this. And then Majin Buu awakens because our protagonists were as overconfident as the audience, blows everyone and everything in the setting out of the water, and dooms the world.

edited 5th Aug '15 2:21:38 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#22236: Aug 5th 2015 at 2:29:03 PM

I just think Dabura brings a surprising amount of world building to the table for what is ultimately a throwaway (well, eat-away) character. He's from a realm in the cosmos the heroes have never been to where he's the ruler and the strongest being, is as strong as or stronger than the previous Big Bad, and has a bunch of cool powers. You'd expect hnim to temporarily defeat the heroes, mess up the world, and go back to his realm, maybe backstabbing Babidi first. Then the heroes have to train some more before taking the fight to the demon world, exploring it and meeting its inhabitants a la Namek and then battling Dabura and his own henchmen.

That's how I feel most other mangaka would use this character.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#22237: Aug 5th 2015 at 2:37:04 PM

It's true. He's basically Frieza from another dimension with his power unlocked by Babidi.

It's not just him, either. Babidi goes out like a chump too, succumbing to Evil Is Not a Toy when Goku asks Buu why he obeys him.

Meanwhile, Babidi's other minions are hilariously disappointing. Spopovich and Yamu fall victim to You Have Outlived Your Usefulness. Vegeta basically laughs Pui Pui to death when he expects 10x gravity to still have any meaning at all at this point in the story. Goku literally defeats Yakon by powering up really hard.

Ultimately, Goku and Vegeta were right not to take Babidi seriously - they were only mistaken in applying the same lack of investment to Buu. Even with all his power and all his henchmen, Babidi was never a threat to them, and the only reason Dabura even had a fighting chance is because Gohan stopped being a fighter seven years ago and let his battle power atrophy. This is what makes Buu's power so startling, and is the reason why the story of the Buu Saga is not what anyone signed on for.

Buu effectively hijacks the plot from the moment he awakens. Even Babidi was unprepared for what would happen and gets only a short-lived stay of execution before he too falls victim to the unpredictable and uncontrollable nature of the creature.

edited 5th Aug '15 2:40:02 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#22238: Aug 5th 2015 at 2:41:02 PM

[up] So you think the whole thing was a deliberately done subversion of both the audience and the characters' expectations?

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#22239: Aug 5th 2015 at 2:41:31 PM

Or, in other words, the Buu saga was actually the Babidi saga until it got hijacked by a morbidly obese pink manchild.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#22240: Aug 5th 2015 at 2:51:53 PM

I'm so glad Babidi died fairly early on.

He was sooo annoying.

edited 5th Aug '15 3:03:52 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#22241: Aug 5th 2015 at 3:02:08 PM

That Babidi what early on?

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#22242: Aug 5th 2015 at 3:03:59 PM

Ooops. XD

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#22243: Aug 5th 2015 at 3:06:10 PM

More or less.

Babidi certainly had every intention of it being the Babidi Saga. His plans for Buu was that Buu would be The Dragon to his Big Bad. It's why he was so willing to cast aside Dabura in order to test Buu's mettle. Kaioshin also sells it to us the same way: Bibidi threatened the universe with Buu as his weapon of mass destruction, and now we are at risk of Babidi repeating the feat.

But that didn't work out very well for him, because Evil Is Not a Toy, and Babidi wound up only being a Big Bad Wannabe in the end.

edited 5th Aug '15 3:07:14 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
OmniGoat from New York, NY Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#22244: Aug 5th 2015 at 3:14:21 PM

Ya know, does anyone else believe that a sufficiently angered Fat Buu would be stronger than Pure Buu (I prefer that to Kid Buu). I read a theory that said the power scale is effectively

Buuhan > Buutenks > Buuccilo > Super Buu > Muscle Buu > Evil Buu > Fat Buu (angered) > Pure Buu > Fat Buu

The theory says that Buu really does get stronger with each absorption, and even absorbing Grand Kai made him stronger, and Fat Buu only seemed weaker because Gran Kai was psychologically holding him back. If he could access the power without being held back he'd be far more powerful. Basically, Pure Buu is always fighting at full-power, and like a suicidal maniac, the others aren't. Anyone else agree?

This shall be my true, Start of Darkness
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#22245: Aug 5th 2015 at 3:19:16 PM

The funny thing is, Goku could ended Buu any time he wanted and Buu Saga would be very short and anticlimactic but he decided to leave the fate of the universe in the hands of two seven year olds, and surprise, surprise, they screw up.

Throughout the whole Buu saga the only reason any danger at all exists is because everyone keeps making terrible decisions.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#22246: Aug 5th 2015 at 3:19:55 PM

Dai Kaioshin both reduced Buu's power and made him less dangerous by temperament. In addition to being explicitly stated, we actually get to see them fight when Mr. Buu goes up against Pure Buu to buy time for the Genki-Dama, and though the former is able to hold his own, he's still sorely outclassed.

edited 5th Aug '15 3:21:04 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#22247: Aug 5th 2015 at 3:33:24 PM

Buu math go! (in order of weakest to strongest):

Dai Kaioshin = Mr. Buu

Dai Kaioshin + 1/2 South Kaioshin = Good Buu

Kid Buu

Kid Buu + South Kaioshin - Dai Kaioshin = Fat Buu

Kid Buu + 1/2 South Kaioshin = Evil Buu

Kid Buu + South Kaioshin - 1/2 Dai Kaioshin = Super Buu

Super Buu + Piccolo = Buuccolo 2.0

Super Buu + Piccolo + Goten + Trunks = Buuccolo 1.0

Kid Buu + South Kaioshin = Buff Buu

Super Buu + SS 3 Gotenks + Piccolo = Buutenks

Super Buu + Gohan + Piccolo + Trunks + Goten = Buuhan

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#22248: Aug 5th 2015 at 3:43:48 PM

What happened to South Kaioshin in your Mr. Buu/Kid Buu dichotomy, then?

Logically he should be a part of Mr. Buu along with Dai.

Regarding a fully angry Fat Buu being stronger than Kid Buu, Super Buu basically IS a fully angry Fat Buu, just reassembled into a different form and not always angry. Still the same components, just with none of the mental blocks Fat Buu had.

COULD Fat Buu potentially be stronger than Kid Buu at peak anger? Maybe, but I don't think he could be physiologically capable of REACHING that anger point or outputting that kind of power without first being reconfigured into Super Buu, so it's somewhat of a moot point.

edited 5th Aug '15 3:47:28 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
OmniGoat from New York, NY Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#22249: Aug 5th 2015 at 4:13:46 PM

I think the thing everyone misses is that Super Buu = Fat Buu without restraint

Also, anyone else glad that Xenoverse made Super Buu stronger than Pure Buu?

This shall be my true, Start of Darkness
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#22250: Aug 5th 2015 at 4:25:52 PM

Well, he should be.

Super Buu is the culmination of multiple absorptions.

In fact, both Vegeta and Goku noted that Pure Buu (that what we're calling Kid Buu right?) was weaker.

Though in keeping with Tobias' earlier statements, they made the mistake of assuming he was less dangerous, which he definitely was not.

edited 5th Aug '15 4:26:02 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!

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