I noticed that the movie contradicts GT bullshit logic about base Goku handling Frieza, due to Beers stating that Goku in his base wouldn't defeat Frieza. This means that even with any grinding post Buu arc Goku in base is still not as strong as his initial SSJ. Though we don't know if Beers took into account Kaiouken. I think it is possible for post Buu arc Goku to defeat Frieza with Kaiouken.
edited 3rd Apr '13 2:52:38 PM by CaptainKatsura
My President is Funny Valentine.Bear in mind that in GT, Goku's been training for much longer than in Battle of the Gods, at least ten years longer than BOTG. At that point he's practically as strong in base form as he was as a SSJ 3 against Buu, most likely. Though, even still, I would think Goku towards the end of Z would be stronger than Frieza anyway even without Kaioken.
edited 3rd Apr '13 2:54:14 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!GT is bullshit. No way he would make jump from base weaker than Frieza to base as strong as his original SSJ 3 with no new training method at all (unless proven that he did something new, I'm going to dismiss fanwank that he got super uber special new training).
My President is Funny Valentine.I think Tarble when claimed they were as strong as Frieza he meant his "first form" with power level of 530.000. Even knowledge that he has one transformation more was something known only to his highest ranked henchmen. If Vegeta didn't know about it initially, why would Tarble? As Goku before his transformation into SSJ was 3.000.000 in base it is not too far-fetched that Goten and Trunks could beat up first form Frieza equivalents.
edited 3rd Apr '13 3:18:27 PM by CaptainKatsura
My President is Funny Valentine.530,000 would be absolutely no match for people who are stronger than Android 18 while a Super Saiyan.
On Namek, Goku's power level was anywhere from 3 mil to 8 mil, depending on who you ask. That alone outclasses first form Frieza at least sixfold. And yet even with that much power over Frieza, as a Super Saiyan he was much weaker than the Androids. Yet Goten and Trunks are both more powerful than 18 as Super Saiyans. They would HAVE to be stronger than base form Frieza by a LOT in order for that to be possible.
edited 3rd Apr '13 3:36:08 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!...hey that's a good point!
Hooray for Piccolo - the fifth strongest being on Earth.
Rewatching him fight Goku at the 2rrd Tournament, it's amazing how far he grew. He went from an easily enraged jackass to The Smart Guy.
That's not a point at all. The boys are in base form inside Boo, and Boo's appearance is affected by them anyway. We see both Piccolo, Goten & Trunks absorbed Boo just Piccolo absorbed Boo in the manga and pure Piccolo Boo has more of Piccolo's features. It's never said that Piccolo was the strongest in Boo, either.
I think Goten and Trunks were stronger, as Super Saiyans, than Piccolo before their RoSaT training. When they power up to max in front of Goku, Piccolo freaks out.
Also, the point of Cui was to introduce the concept of Saiyans powering up after recovering from near death. That's why he has the exact same battle power as Vegeta.
He's not smart, though.
edited 4th Apr '13 3:00:21 AM by Saiga
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Because I only call people smart when they do something smart or failing that at least are meant to be smart in-universe.
And I don't dislike Piccolo at all. Just because I don't try to twist things to make him stronger than the boys and just take things how they are doesn't mean I dislike him. There's no evidence for him being stronger, a bit of evidence for the boys being stronger, and so I just go with that.
Piccolo is not The Smart Guy. He's the Reasonably Less Dumb than the Others Guy.
...Isn't that The Smart Guy?
It's not like The Smart Guy is ever actually smart in a silly show for little boys. Bulma is an idiot, Dr. Gero is a bigger idiot, etc.
Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.Intelligence was never a particularly expressed trait of Piccolo Jr though. Instead of the smart guy call him The Stoic and that was only after being defeated in the world tournament.
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

Yeah, he flat out admitted that he was lying.