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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#22126: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:35:09 PM

Actually, we do know exactly how strong Super Perfect Cell is.

Super Perfect Cell was only able to match Super Saiyan 2 Gohan when SSJ2 Gohan was half strength. Since Super Saiyan 2 gives a 100x power boost, this makes Gohan's strength equivalent to if he only have a 50x power boost which is what Super Saiyan is. Super Perfect Cell is only about as strong as Super Saiyan Gohan.

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#22127: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:40:21 PM

And Gohan was still losing until Vegeta stepped in.

And Gohan was hurt.

And translations.

And even so, assuming that's all legit, Cell being as strong as a SSJ 2 still sounds worse than him being high-end SSJ 1.

Blaaaah. Numbers.

EDIT: They're saying round Super Perfect up to SSJ 2. Unless I've misspoken, I'm saying keep him Super Saiyan 1 point 6 whatever.

edited 3rd Aug '15 12:43:44 PM by Soble

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#22128: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:43:12 PM

Gohan was winning until he had to save Vegeta's useless ass.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#22129: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:44:29 PM

The beam struggle. Gohan was losing. That's how I remember it, and Vegeta fired the blast at Cell, distracting him, just as Goku told Gohan to ramp up the juice, and then Gohan won.

[up]Did Gohan and Super Perfect Cell exchange a single punch?

edited 3rd Aug '15 12:45:13 PM by Soble

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#22130: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:45:54 PM

Again, Cell was never a match for Super Saiyan 2 Gohan as Super Perfect Cell. There's more proof of that than your argument that Super Perfect Cell was stronger.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#22131: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:46:12 PM

I don't think the beam struggle is a really fair comparison?

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#22132: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:47:24 PM

Especially seeing as how that beam struggle was after his power was reduced by half. Super Perfect Cell is only match for Super Saiyan Gohan and was never a threat to Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#22133: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:47:54 PM

The beam struggle is still proof Super Perfect Cell wasn't stronger. Cell at that point was fresh as new while Gohan had to work with a injury that left him exactly as strong as he was before transforming a second time.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#22134: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:49:38 PM

[up] He's not saying Super Perfect Cell was stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. He's saying he was stronger than Perfect Cell, which is self-evident.

Our criticism is that his gain in strength wasn't enough to actually make much of a difference in the fight. He was still utterly worthless compared to Gohan, and it took an unnecessary second plot contrivance to even give him a chance at winning, immediately after he already got an ambiguously-defined power-up that could have done the job itself.

It's like if, right after Goku became a Super Saiyan, Frieza's Final Form still proved to be too powerful and he effortlessly defeated Goku, but then Frieza also came down with a heart illness that weakened his power so that Super Saiyan Goku could match his strength. Cell's zenkai was a free license to even the playing field in and of itself; why Toriyama felt he needed a second handicap to go with it is beyond me.

edited 3rd Aug '15 12:52:35 PM by TobiasDrake

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#22135: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:53:51 PM

He's not saying Super Perfect Cell was stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. He's saying he was stronger than Perfect Cell, which is self-evident.

If that's all Soble was saying, this conversation wouldn't have taken the path it did but I don't think that's what he's actually saying right now.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
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#22136: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:54:30 PM

Even at 50% Gohan only had problems because he was holding back his power.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#22137: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:56:20 PM

[up][up] Well, he's also saying that he appreciates that Cell came back too weak to stand a chance against Gohan and that Gohan had to be nerfed because he thinks it's a welcome departure from other instances where a character's power-up was sufficient to make a difference in the fight. That's the point of contention being argued.

But as for the, "He was stronger," bits, he seems to be referring to Cell coming back stronger than he was before he self-destructed.

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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#22138: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:56:49 PM

Gohan is OP even when nerfed.

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#22139: Aug 3rd 2015 at 12:59:53 PM

[up][up]Okay. As long as everyone's on the same page I think that's all that matters.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#22140: Aug 3rd 2015 at 1:09:26 PM

Okay, I have to ask but where was it ever said that Gohan lost half of his power; because you people keep saying that but I don't thin there has been anything that has stated that. Plus, Gohan could have just gotten another rage boost and went even further in power than he did as a Super Saiyan 2.

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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
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#22141: Aug 3rd 2015 at 1:12:27 PM

Gohan was demoralized by the fact that Cell had gotten so much stronger and wasn't trying as hard due to that and the fact he caused Goku to die; once he pushed, Cell died pretty quickly.

So yea, even if it was never explicitly stated he was only at half, he was still subconsciously holding himself back.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#22142: Aug 3rd 2015 at 1:22:07 PM

Gohan explicitly states it in chapter 416, when Cell is preparing to fire his Super Kamehameha. Goku tells him to fire his back, and Gohan argues that he only has one arm and that his power is less than half of normal.

edited 3rd Aug '15 1:22:38 PM by TobiasDrake

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
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#22143: Aug 3rd 2015 at 1:25:11 PM

Yes, because having less than half of your power after losing an arm makes total sense.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#22144: Aug 3rd 2015 at 1:26:31 PM

It's not the first time combat damage has reduced a character's power.

One might argue that the entire battle against Vegeta hinged on this, as Vegeta ultimately succumbed to a Death of a Thousand Cuts administered by characters far inferior to his power.

edited 3rd Aug '15 1:27:41 PM by TobiasDrake

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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#22145: Aug 3rd 2015 at 1:56:34 PM

[up][up] So you mean to tell me that injuries don't affect your overall strength. That means Gohan should still be able to put up a fight using only his torso :V

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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#22146: Aug 3rd 2015 at 2:03:55 PM

[up][up][up] That is such a pointless argument that I don't know why you made it. Make sense or not, it doesn't change the fact that Gohan was at about half power during the beam struggle.

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#22147: Aug 3rd 2015 at 2:13:25 PM

...I meant how does losing one arm cut your power in half. Really, if body health is proportional to ki, than Gohan would have had to have half of his body damaged to have his energy cut in half.

edited 3rd Aug '15 2:13:50 PM by Ssj3Gojira

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#22148: Aug 3rd 2015 at 2:14:27 PM

Ki is centralized in the arms.

edited 3rd Aug '15 2:16:09 PM by unnoun

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#22149: Aug 3rd 2015 at 2:14:28 PM

I mean, if I shoot you in the arm, you're gonna be putting up way less of a fight than when you had both arms.

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