Vegeta has done nothing useful to the story that couldn't have been done by some other character after the Freeza Saga. He has been nothing but a burden and, more often than not, has actually HELPED the villains get what they want. I posit that YAMCHA is more useful than Vegeta for the protagonists during the Z part of the story because at least he doesn't consistently and consciously make things worse.
I like Vegeta as a character and all the stupid crap he does is in-character but he is a burden at best and an antagonist at worst.
Well, up until he throws away his pride and dances like an idiot to prevent Beerus from fucking up everything in Battle Of Gods that is.
In fact, being reminded of some of the dumb stunts he's pulled makes that moment an even better Crowning Moment Of Awesome for him.
One Strip! One Strip!I'd sort of hate it, because re-doing things like that feels a little hypocritical.
I'm happy with Super being its own thing.
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!I want Super to have more original story-lines truthfully. It's kinda annoying that we have to do Battle Of Gods and Revival of F again.
One Strip! One Strip!There's no guarantee Super is going to be more cohesive either. I mean, hasn't this thread covered all of the discrepancies between what Toriyama says, and what he said years ago, numerous times?
I'm curious if we'll still see SSG, ROF didn't even bother showing us the form, I get the ugly feeling that Super Ultra-Combo Saiyan will be the new "SSG form" - otherwise, seeing Goku's hair go black, red, and then blue will look very silly.
And lo and behold if it turns white when he goes further with the transformations.
edited 30th Jul '15 12:48:24 PM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!It is funny because despite so many people saying Battle Of Gods and Revenge of Frieza has retconned GT, I haven't really seen any evidence of that.
I mean, you all re-call Goku was ridiculously powerful in base form in GT (beating down Super Saiyan Gohan and Goten, as well as Cell and Frieza without transforming). Maybe the God power completely leaked into his base form, and he was just that strong without changing now.
Of course, he still used normal Super Saiyan, so that's pretty unlikely.
.....Actually, with a little tweaking, I'm finding myself open to re-told GT. Or they could crib some ideas and villains from it and re-introduce them to the series proper (I'd always theorized that Super Saiyan 4 just requires being any level of Super Saiyan while an Oozaru, then looking at the full earth, rather than specifically being SSJ 3).
One Strip! One Strip!Even after absorbing the God form's power, Goku could still become Super Saiyan God again and have his power boosted a second time. When he stops Beerus's destruction ball at the end of Battle of Gods, he's basically Super Saiyan God Squared.
If he had the ability to do that in GT, one would think it would have come up during the Omega Shenron battle.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Isn't Saiyan Beyond God just Goku after he absorbed the Super Saiyan God power?
But the point is, if he can double down on Super Saiyan God, then the theory that he didn't have to turn SSGSS in GT because he internalized its power like SSG has that flaw: there's no reason to assume he wouldn't be able to double down on that too if he had, like he did the only transformation he has ever internalized.
edited 30th Jul '15 12:16:15 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I see your point. I'm not too attached to the idea, but I'll still try and suggest a solution:
Perhaps, he somehow lost the ability to go Super Saiyan God, or Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.
Maybe using both became too stressful on his body for some reason (like SSJ 3 and using Kaiouken as a Super Saiyan).
Eh, whatever. I knew it was a dumb sounding idea anyway.
One Strip! One Strip!He would have to outright lose them. The idea that he could have transformed into them and didn't can only work if Goku were never truly challenged in GT; if there was not a single moment in the entire series where Goku wasn't strong enough to overcome the foe he was up against and needed to find a way to gain more power and win, or otherwise outthink or outstrategize the insurmountable foe.
Anyone who's seen GT knows that's not true.
edited 30th Jul '15 12:36:23 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.There are lot's more problems between GT and the two movies featuring Beerus.
Problems besides Goku still using Super Saiyan 3, the altered portrayal of hell, the lack of golden Freeza, the age of the Pilaf trio. SSGSS isn't just internalized, it's mastery of the SS God form combined with super saiyan. That's the reason he doesn't use 2 and three anymore, they've been replaced with something better. There is the complete lack of mention regarding Beerus and Whis, especially since the shadow dragon saga hinges on seven uses of Earth's dragon balls.
Now, plot holes are nothing new to Dragon Ball but GT is better off separated at this point, even if you do like it. It's going to be hard enough squeezing in Uub from the manga's end with all these new developments.
As for Omega Shenron vs Beerus?
Beerus is a cat. Cats hate water. Omega Shenron has power over oceans. If this is not exploited, Beerus breaks his back.
edited 30th Jul '15 11:27:00 PM by IndirectActiveTransport
Buldogue's lawyerAt this point, the only thing truly set in stone about Beerus's battle power is that he's stronger. Whatever you throw at him, he's stronger. He effortlessly humiliates everyone he's up against and the only way Goku even had a fighting chance was to unlock a new Super Saiyan transformation, which raises his battle power an unknown level, and even then, Beerus is stronger.
Beerus's battle power is just the word, "Stronger." And Whis is even higher than him.
So between the two, I would have to give the fight to Beerus on the grounds that Omega Shenron has lost before. Both characters are so powerful as to be abstract concepts more than fighters, but despite his immense power, Omega Shenron has limitations. As of yet, Beerus has never been surpassed. Thematically, Omega Shenron exists as a powerful foe to overcome, while Beerus exists as an insurmountable foe to drive home the idea that Goku still isn't powerful enough to always win every time.
Shorter answer is that we lose because the fight blows up the universe.
edited 30th Jul '15 12:49:46 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Shenlong was summoned three times across both movies, therefore the Shadow Dragons cannot exist because each one was created with one wish and seven wishes released them while in the new continuity, there have been nine wishes with no drawbacks. GT was a mistake and should be forgotten as thoroughly as possible. The only good thing that can be said about GT is that it was better than all three live-action movies in the past which is NOT high praise.
Also, Tobias Drake I C what U did ther.
edited 30th Jul '15 12:53:38 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
That's not any more of a plot hole than it already was in GT.
- Oolong's panties.
- Revive Bora.
- Restore Piccolo Daimao's youth.
- Revive Piccolo Daimao's victims.
- Revive Goku.
- Revive the victims of Frieza and his henchmen.
- Revive Cell's victims.
- Remove the bombs from the Androids.
- Revive Vegeta's victims from the Tenkaichi Budokai.
- Erase all memory of Majin Buu from the Earth.
By the end of the series, ignoring filler, movies, etc., ten wishes were made on Shenron. GT's Shadow Dragons only represent seven of those wishes; three went unaccounted for.
edited 30th Jul '15 12:59:33 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.So when are we getting Semi-Perfect Cell (holding back a little), SSGSS Goku (guard down), Toddler Gohan (angry), Chi-Chi (Kaio-Ken), Dende (power unlocked), Taopaipai (sword), Ninja Murasaki (one of his brothers), Ninja Murasaki (one of his brothers), Ninja Murasaki (one of his brothers), Ninja Murasaki (one of his brothers), Ninja Murasaki (one of his brothers), Buyon (frozen), Major Metallitron (headless), Teen Goku (all limbs broken), or the most unlikely of them all: Pan (Super Saiyan 1)?

As I've said many times, the worst Saiyan is the one that got the redemption story while the others were left to rot. Raditz and Nappa were also bastards, but they pale in comparison to the sheer, unashamed malevolence that was Vegeta from the moment of his introduction until near the end of the Cell Games.
The only reason Vegeta is pleasant to have around is because the show is so mean to him all the time, and it's hilarious to watch.
edited 30th Jul '15 10:54:11 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.