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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#21451: Jul 20th 2015 at 7:07:53 PM

2-3 pages ago, about Minus vs Father of Goku.

That's irrelevant, clearly they threw it away when Gohan gave him his blue gi.

And that sounds like Hand Wave'ing.

And Minus making more sense should be obvious.

Humor me.

They explained why all the Saiyans were on Vegeta

...so the Bardock special didn't. Because I'm pretty sure Frieza was recalling them to Planet Vegeta so he could exterminate them.

and Bardock and Gine being the ones to send Goku to Earth clears up a huge plot hole from the special.

-Gene Wilder stare-

What plot hole?

Because Goku being sent to Earth due to a low power level correlates with what Vegeta said to Goku during their battle, about low-levels being sent to lesser planets (or was that Raditz?).

Goku survived by happenstance, Goku surviving because his parents from the warrior race were decent people makes less sense and is an even more blatant copy of Superman's origin.

edited 20th Jul '15 7:22:41 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#21452: Jul 20th 2015 at 7:18:16 PM

Raditz said it but Vegeta might have also said something similar.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21453: Jul 20th 2015 at 7:22:10 PM

The Time Nest is in Year 850. The events of Battle of Gods have already long since passed. Whis and Beerus being there doesn't mean that there was a significant change to the timeline, at least, no more significant than the change that already happened.

Whis and Beerus both act like they've followed the Time Patroller home though. Like the encounter with Demigra is fresh for them.

...Also, it seems like Goku can instant transmission to and from the Time Nest in 850 so.

You'd be pissed if someone screwed up things like Bulma did (by creating a Time-travel machine) and you had to fix it.

I imagine she was bored before then actually. The only problem she'd had was Demigra.

...Of course, Bulma's time machine led to the first distortion in history, which led to Demigra getting out again, so.

edited 20th Jul '15 7:24:11 PM by unnoun

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#21454: Jul 20th 2015 at 7:29:35 PM

Dokkan Battle is just a typical FTP game. That is, it tries to trick you into thinking you have any sort of input, when you really don't.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21455: Jul 20th 2015 at 10:30:53 PM

Whis and Beerus both act like they've followed the Time Patroller home though. Like the encounter with Demigra is fresh for them.

I assumed they followed me through my time portal. It probably breaks a few laws of physics, but I'll bet those two never studied law.

...Also, it seems like Goku can instant transmission to and from the Time Nest in 850 so.

I bet that had something to do with whatever SKOT wished for on the dragonballs.

That, or maybe the time Nest is in a pocket dimension that's always "in 850", but can be travelled to from whenever. Not so much a parallel time as a perpendicular one.

I have a message from another time...
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#21456: Jul 20th 2015 at 10:40:17 PM

Time is very weird in the Time Nest since we know that any fusion that was produced by the Fusion Dance won't time out there.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#21457: Jul 21st 2015 at 1:33:32 AM

@Soble

1) Maybe, but you are being hilariously and ridiculously nitpicky, considering that what happens to the armor is irrelevant.

3)That was never mentioned in the special and-this covers 4 too- if he had ordered everyone back to Vegeta too kill them all, wouldn't he also order them from going off planet? Babies included. So Gine and Bardock being the ones to send Goku to Earth makes more sense than Frieza somehow forgetting to order the saiyans stop sending babies off world.

Frieza would very likely do everything possible to make sure all Saiyans were on Vegeta. Also, he clearly didn't know of Earth till Namek, so Gine's reason for sending Goku there holds up too.

Also, you seem to be forgetting that it has already been established that there were good Saiyans. That's not something introduced in minus.

edited 21st Jul '15 1:40:04 AM by Cortez

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#21458: Jul 21st 2015 at 4:02:08 AM

For beings that are at least 75 million years old (IIRC, that's about how long it's been since the Elder Kai was put in the Z sword by Beerus), 100 years is nothing, and I'm sure that the encounter with Demigra would have been fresh in their minds even if it had been a hundred years since it'd happened.

Because, you know, it was probably the equivalent of a couple of minutes for Beerus and Whis.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21459: Jul 21st 2015 at 4:18:24 AM

What about the part where Beerus is an impatient little shit?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#21460: Jul 21st 2015 at 4:33:12 AM

Time travel CAN create alternate timelines, it's actually the Kaioshin of Time's magic that allows for time travel without creating alternate timelines (because alternate timelines will fill up the time vault and fuck up everything).

Time travel created alternate timelines is suggested to be the default for people without the Time Kaioshin's magic.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#21461: Jul 21st 2015 at 4:33:36 AM

That's countered by his being incredibly lazy. He is a cat after all.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21462: Jul 21st 2015 at 4:46:31 AM

[up][up] It seems like Demigra and Towa were actually changing time though.

...And then there's the stuff about "splitting the scrolls".

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#21463: Jul 21st 2015 at 4:49:21 AM

It's a bit confusing when it comes to Demigra and Towa. They are creating alternate timelines, that's why we have parallel quests, but attacking Future Trunks causes Future-er Trunks to start fading from existence.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21464: Jul 21st 2015 at 4:56:20 AM

It seems like the "distortions in history" and the way the scrolls get all purple and glowy and the when Trunks says that "history is about to change" makes it seem like they're changing history. Going to pre-established timelines and fucking them up.

The Time Patrol has to fix the changes and then "split the scrolls" in order to separate the changed versions from the prime timeline.

And it doesn't seem like Demigra and Towa are responsible for the Parallel Quests? Where did you get that from?

edited 21st Jul '15 4:56:51 AM by unnoun

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#21465: Jul 21st 2015 at 5:02:12 AM

It's said that the time patrol are trying to clean up the extra timelines, not create more. They need less timelines so the time vault doesn't fill up, so you have to make the timelines match history. The parallel quests are describe as "runaway fragments" which are created from the meddling in the timeline. They're not explained in much detail though.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21466: Jul 21st 2015 at 5:04:51 AM

...So like, are you going off of the Japanese version of Xenoverse? Because it feels like we interpreted certain scenes and lines very differently.

Hah.

edited 21st Jul '15 5:05:40 AM by unnoun

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#21467: Jul 21st 2015 at 5:25:44 AM

I'm going off the dub of Xenoverse and a lot of information collected by others at Kanzenshuu. Oh, and the scans published in Shonen Jump and stuff. Those might not be accurate for story and stuff though.

It's also mentioned that the time machine you use for the parallel quests doesn't create split timelines. The Time Kaioshin definitely wants to avoid that.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21468: Jul 21st 2015 at 5:28:37 AM

Wasn't there a thing about the Parallel Quests not quite being true timelines but more like splinters? Like, tiny moments of time that split off, when Trunks explained them.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#21469: Jul 21st 2015 at 5:33:10 AM

They're described as fragments, but they're still created by branching timelines. What the difference between a fragment and a fullblown timeline is really isn't explained.

I can't think of how a "fragment" of time would work. Does it simply not have any "before" like a timeline does? It would explain how some quests make absolutely no sense, like Boo appearing on Namek.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21470: Jul 21st 2015 at 7:42:30 AM

They're parasite timelines

I have a message from another time...
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#21471: Jul 21st 2015 at 8:13:45 AM

I'm unclear both on what they're supposed to be and what you're supposed to be doing in "cleaning them up".

Like, okay, this fragment is from a timeline where Captain Ginyu took Vegeta's body. ...and to resolve that, which I don't even entirely understand what resolving it would entail in the first place, I have to go there and beat them up. Which accomplishes...things?

edited 21st Jul '15 8:14:15 AM by TobiasDrake

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IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#21472: Jul 21st 2015 at 9:10:22 AM

Dragon Ball Online suggested the amount of alternate timelines could be infinite, but the Lord King Of Time(who is apparently a woman in Xenoverse) said Trunks causing a split with his machine was a crime (which should suggest Cell doing the same was one too but he's dead in all three resulting timelines)

The Time Breakers being able to alter the current timelines had something to do with Towa being a brilliant scientist who wants to steal from the past. Why they center around major Dragon Ball events has to do with Goku being dead in their time and Miira having some strange obsession with him. How the time patrol also changed their machines? Supreme Kai Of Time helping out makes more sense than any conclusion I could come to honestly, though 'she's' never actually seen in Online. If Xenoverse is like Online though, Miira and Towa's actions might have simply caused time leaks that lead to the nest. Those tend to open up as an indirect result of their distortions.

Buldogue's lawyer
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21473: Jul 21st 2015 at 10:33:12 AM

Doesn't the word translated "Supreme Kai" mean "Lord king of worlds" or in Japanese?

Like. King Kai's title/name is literally "King of worlds" or "lord of worlds" or something, right?

Which is why Budokai called the Kaioken "fist of the world king".

...King Kai is one of the few mentors that isn't a pervert, which is lucky, considering he never learned how to use his own fist.

The Toki Toki World is Inside Time, with a flow of time that sets the standard for everything else, and the home of the Lords of Lords, and their loom.

...God I don't think Saiga's right about what the deal is in Xenoverse but. I really really don't want to delete my save file and start over, and nobody's put up a transcript of all the text box dialogue so.

Dammit.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#21474: Jul 21st 2015 at 11:41:48 AM

1) Maybe, but you are being hilariously and ridiculously nitpicky, considering that what happens to the armor is irrelevant.

Its not really nitpicking when that was the initial point. You keep saying that its irrelevant to Minus making more sense, when it doesn't make sense that Goku was sent with Saiyan armor and purpose and completely forgot about it.

That was never mentioned in the special

When was it ever established that there were "good" Saiyans? Because last i checked they were a war-loving people who slaughtered planets for fun and profit.

if he had ordered everyone back to Vegeta too kill them all, wouldn't he also order them from going off planet? Babies included

This is the same person who chose to prolong his battle with the Z-Fighters, effectively securing his loss. Frieza can be, and often is, hilariously undercut by his own arrogance. Cooler even comments on this while watching Frieza blow up Vegeta.

So Gine and Bardock being the ones to send Goku to Earth makes more sense than Frieza somehow forgetting to order the saiyans stop sending babies off world.

Clearly we disagree, because Gine and Bardock being "nice" is just a convenient fill-in for details that weren't established about them previously. I can confidently say I haven't heard of "any" Saiyans being described as 'nice' until Minus came up.

And I'm sure I heard a line about Frieza calling the Saiyans back to Vegeta, that's why Dodoroia was sent after Bardock's team on Meat. I'll have to check.

Frieza would very likely do everything possible to make sure all Saiyans were on Vegeta.

No. He wouldn't. There are several examples of him not doing everything in his power to resolve situations quickly or efficiently.

  • Want to find the dragonballs? Murder villagers until one coughs them up.
  • Want to deal with intruders? Send your third-best henchmen who's 20-30 times slower and weaker than you.
  • Want to exact revenge? Waste time beating the crap out of people instead of blowing up the planet.
  • Want to stop the Super Saiyan from appearing? Kill 99.9 percent of the Saiyan race and keep 3 as pets, assuming they won't plot revenge.

Also, he clearly didn't know of Earth till Namek, so Gine's reason for sending Goku there holds up too.

Convenient replacement for Earth being a weak planet that the Saiyans expected one of their children to conquer.

Also, you seem to be forgetting that it has already been established that there were good Saiyans. That's not something introduced in minus.

No, seriously, where is this coming from? Someone tell me where good Saiyans were mentioned.

edited 21st Jul '15 11:49:01 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#21475: Jul 21st 2015 at 12:22:38 PM

For Super Saiyan God to appear, there had to be at least five good saiyans. Of course Shenlong\Shenron also said the evil saiyans slaughtered them once the time limit ran out so...

Even then, Nappa wasn't all bad, better than Raddiz and Vegeta at any rate.

Buldogue's lawyer

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