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Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#2051: Mar 31st 2013 at 6:06:11 PM

Holy hell, my old videos back from when I watched GT for the first time are still around.

Firstly, there is actually an instance of Goku struggling with a building. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT0w8h3fMlc

I think the intention is more that, since Goku is so tiny, he can't hold up a giant building. Gravity and physics and whaeve are against him, no matter how strong he is. I dunno though.

And then there was this:

It took Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks to bust out of a dimension and Base Goku does it just fine here. Also the statement in Japanese is that Goku has enough energy to destroy a galaxy. ( I think so anyway. Going off memory)

Of course people still argue Super Perfect Cell was talking shit when he said he could destroy the solar system so unlikely those people will accept this statement either.

Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#2052: Mar 31st 2013 at 6:07:15 PM

Yes, as for blast size area it was explained by Trunks when he did not realize a skilled fighter could contain incredibly destructive energy into a small area when Vegeta throws potentially planet busters at Cell. (I'd say it was a unique trait of Dragon Ball but hunter x hunter used it too so maybe it is just a Japanese thing) It ties in with the theme of the Cell Saga as well. Energy blasts keep getting bigger, auras keep expanding out wider, characters get increasingly more muscular and then Gohan turns it all on its head. No muscle gain, small aura and he's stronger than all of them despite it (though he and Cell give the biggest show yet when they really go at each other). Maybe even with the Android saga period as most of them did not even have Auras.

edit[up] fair enough, he apparently had enough energy to light up an entire galaxy but struggled with a building in base. (he did not have any trouble with it in super mode but he seemed a little tired from the cracked ground). But wait, is that not enough evidence for us to prove GT is crass and inconsistent? This guy can supposedly handle heat hotter than the sun and light up the galaxy in base but a building is too hard (in base) and a crack is the street is kind of hard powered up?

edited 31st Mar '13 7:04:01 PM by Cider

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2053: Mar 31st 2013 at 6:14:31 PM

@Anom 15 years of training in Toei land will do that, you mean.tongue

edited 31st Mar '13 6:14:39 PM by Saiga

CPFMfan I am serious. This is my serious face. from A Whale's Vagina Since: Aug, 2010
I am serious. This is my serious face.
#2054: Mar 31st 2013 at 6:22:44 PM

How many universe busters are there in this series? Was Janemba a universe buster?

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Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#2055: Mar 31st 2013 at 6:26:53 PM

Janemba turned hell into jello land with a word, caused the dead to walk and handled Super 3 Goku but I would say no. I really would put him at the same strength as base Super Buu, maybe a little stronger but nothing Gohan could not handle.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2056: Mar 31st 2013 at 6:35:47 PM

[up][up] It's difficult to say if anyone save for Omega is a universe buster.

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#2057: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:01:55 PM

And even then, Omega is probably only universe busting via a chain reaction as opposed to all at once. At best, he's probably star level based on feats alone.

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CPFMfan I am serious. This is my serious face. from A Whale's Vagina Since: Aug, 2010
I am serious. This is my serious face.
#2058: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:15:49 PM

Nah. According to that video up there, base Goku is a galaxy buster, and Omega is thousands of times stronger than that. Cell was also a solar system buster, and he's possibly tens or hundreds of thousands times weaker than Omega.

edited 31st Mar '13 7:16:35 PM by CPFMfan

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2059: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:20:17 PM

The problem is we know nothing of Sugoro's realm and can't compare it to the Dragon Ball cosmos in scale.

And Cell being a solar system buster is nothing but a boast that he never backed up.

edited 31st Mar '13 7:21:20 PM by Saiga

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#2060: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:22:01 PM

You know, at the very least I think the Shadow Dragons' designs are cool, and the concept of the Dragonballs themselves being the true villain all along is an interesting one...

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#2061: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:25:12 PM

I think the Shadow Dragon saga was the only one in GT that was halfway decent although it still could have been executed better.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#2062: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:25:27 PM

I agree. It's nice that the story's horrifically abused plot device finally bites them in the ass.

The only problem is that only three of the dragons were worth much. The rest were kinda jokes.

And what was up with Pan using her "first Kamehameha" against the water one or whatever? She used one way earlier with Goku and Trunks.

Dammit, GT.

edited 31st Mar '13 7:26:01 PM by Nikkolas

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2063: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:25:58 PM

[up][up][up] Yeah, it's about the most absolute way to piss on Toriyama's intent.

Randomman5 "The Perfect Villain Doesn't Exi-" Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
"The Perfect Villain Doesn't Exi-"
#2064: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:28:12 PM

One thing that bugs me about the Shadow Dragons - if this were possible, don't you think Kami, Dende, Guru or the Namekian Elder would have, y'know, warned them that this was even remotely possible?! They made the Dragon Balls, it's not like they wouldn't know the damn things could fill with evil and spawn bad guys!

edited 31st Mar '13 7:29:53 PM by Randomman5

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#2065: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:29:58 PM

How are they supposed to know? They made the things but that doesn't mean something like this has ever happened before. Before the radar was made I think the Dragon Balls were only used once or twice every century. That would give plenty of time for the energy to dissipate.

edited 31st Mar '13 7:30:15 PM by Kostya

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#2066: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:30:31 PM

Didn't the Old Kai hint towards this? Pretty sure when one of th characters flippantly suggests using the Dragonballs he's like no, you can't just abuse your fantastically powerful magic like that.

Randomman5 "The Perfect Villain Doesn't Exi-" Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
"The Perfect Villain Doesn't Exi-"
#2067: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:31:29 PM

Because they'd still most likely know about the fact that the negative energy would build up, and anyone with half a brain can tell you that anything called "negative energy" building up in magical artifacts of near-ultimate power is a terrible thing.

[up] Yeah, but you'd at least expect the people who made the balls to know that, too.

edited 31st Mar '13 7:31:56 PM by Randomman5

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#2068: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:31:36 PM

[up][up]I think that was Grand Kai and that bit was apparently anime filler. It works since GT was that but if it happened in the main canon it would have come out of nowhere.

[up]Does he know negative energy is building up? Given Dende's surprise it's possible they just didn't expect this to happen.

edited 31st Mar '13 7:32:11 PM by Kostya

Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#2069: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:32:51 PM

That could be used for a justification, but in the original context old Kai was angry that they just made the sacrifice of his life look obsolete.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Randomman5 "The Perfect Villain Doesn't Exi-" Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
"The Perfect Villain Doesn't Exi-"
#2070: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:33:51 PM

Well, okay, to be fair, Dende was handed the job. Maybe he didn't know about this. Piccolo, however, who fused with Kami, the creator of the Dragon Balls that caused the Shadow Dragons, would almost certainly know.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2071: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:34:19 PM

Kaioshin did not in any way warn them. He simply doesn't like the idea of people using the Dragon Balls to save the world because apparently it's not moral to do so. If that was supposed to be warning about the Shadow Dragons, he failed hard.

And yes, the Namekians and Kaioshin both know about the Shadow Dragons in GT. They chose to say nothing because apparently they're negligent assholes.

edited 31st Mar '13 7:35:05 PM by Saiga

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#2072: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:34:32 PM

I'm much less concerned about them being unaware of the negative consequences of the Dragon Balls and more concerned about the massive WTF nature of the Black Star Dragon Balls.

theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#2073: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:37:06 PM

Plus we had this conversation in the Abridged thread.

[up][up]We talk about this. It is better if only Old Kai knew it because by the time he tells them not to use it. It would be too late.

edited 31st Mar '13 7:37:27 PM by theweirdKiddokun

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Randomman5 "The Perfect Villain Doesn't Exi-" Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
"The Perfect Villain Doesn't Exi-"
#2074: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:37:17 PM

Yeah, you really have to wonder the logic of creating a set of Dragon Balls that blows up the damn planet after a year.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#2075: Mar 31st 2013 at 7:39:54 PM

I thought that's the reason they were never used.

So the Namekians and Kai knew and said nothing? Well in that case they are idiots.


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