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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#20551: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:24:50 AM

It's another thing to make a female character that was all about aggression be suddenly cutesy and submissive.

She's also now a mother. A lot of people, men and women alike, tend to change once they've become parents. Vegeta is a prime example of this.

Also, 18 is stronger than anyone that isn't a Saiyan or Piccolo.

True but she's also orders of magnitude weaker than Piccolo who, in turn, can't even hold a candle to the Saiyans. That statement was meaningless.

For example, Videl is probably one of the characters in the series most likely to try to train during peace-time. Not even because she wants to be the strongest, but just because it seemed like she likes it.

Perhaps but, to my knowledge, we don't know that she hasn't been occasionally working out. Even if she did, she'd have her hands full just catching up to Yamcha.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20552: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:27:17 AM

So I can't recall if this was brought up, but Satan is a legitimately strong fighter by completely normal standards (no ki control and the like).

He likely wouldn't have faired well even in the very first tournament that Goku and company competed in, but still, where was he back during that time. In terms of age, he might be around the same age range as Vegeta (29 at the start of Z) so somewhere in his forties.

I gotta do the math to figure out how old he might be during the time of Dragonball, but I'm wondering what he was doing during that time.

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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#20553: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:29:32 AM

If I had to guess, he probably didn't get into the martial arts thing until sometime after the 22nd or even 23rd Budoukai.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20554: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:30:08 AM

She's also now a mother. A lot of people, men and women alike, tend to change once they've become parents. Vegeta is a prime example of this.

Vegeta's changed but he still has interests and hobbies. Like his gravity chamber, and monologues, and lording his ego around over people. Watching infomercials about bargain sales.

Also, Videl's not even pregnant in the first episode of Super.

...And the thing is that every female character in Dragon Ball changes in basically the same way in response to the life transition known as parenthood. The male characters tend to be a lot more varied in their responses. Forgive me for being upset by that fact.

I don't mind one female character being a housewife, because housewife or househusband is a perfectly okay thing to be. There's nothing especially problematic about a woman being a housewife or stay at home mother if a series shows that it isn't the only thing a woman can be or do, and that she isn't just doing it because of her gender, and presents it as a choice on the part of the character in question that fits with her personality and desires up to that point.

I mean. In some ways the most subversive relationship in the series is Vegeta and Bulma. Because it seems like in the Buu Saga, Vegeta was the one who stayed at home while Bulma worked.

A moot point since she worked at home, but. Vegeta seemed like he stayed in the "house" part of the compound, while Bulma went to the labs and offices.

...We're never shown Bulma cooking or cleaning either. Her mom does those things, and Bulma builds robots to do them.

True but she's also orders of magnitude weaker than Piccolo who, in turn, can't even hold a candle to the Saiyans. That statement was meaningless.

She can get stronger if she trains. Possibly even get upgrades if Bulma still has any blueprints.

Perhaps but, to my knowledge, we don't know that she hasn't been occasionally working out. Even if she did, she'd have her hands full just catching up to Yamcha.

She figured out how to fly after a day.

Videl seemed like a quick learner to me. A prodigy by human standards.

So I can't recall if this was brought up, but Satan is a legitimately strong fighter by completely normal standards (no ki control and the like).

He likely wouldn't have faired well even in the very first tournament that Goku and company competed in, but still, where was he back during that time.

I actually feel like he would have been about equal to Krillin at that tournament. Krillin didn't know the kamehameha but he was still really strong and fast by human standards.

edited 9th Jul '15 11:47:49 AM by unnoun

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#20555: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:32:58 AM

Videl simply spent too much time with Gohan and his dorknes rubbed on her.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20556: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:33:42 AM

He must be put in quarantine before it spreads any further.

We can only hope it isn't too late.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20557: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:36:30 AM

[up][up][up]

Makes sense I guess.

Hmmm.

Now I'm thinking of Satan also becoming a student of Master Roshi and training under him. I mean, he'd probably be pretty damned powerful with that kind of training, considering how strong he is without it.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#20558: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:45:17 AM

Humans being irrelevant in combat depends entirely on the scope of the threat.

ROF is a good example of this. Humans are completely useless in Battle of Gods because there is only one villain and he's so powerful that even Goku can't handle him. Cell and Majin Buu had the same issue: there's only one of each of them. But Frieza is an Evil Overlord figure. He has an army.

Goku and Vegeta can't be everywhere at once. If Frieza launches a full-scale invasion of Earth, there will be people in need of protection all across the world.

"Well, Goku and Vegeta could just fly around the world ending those battles!"

Not if they're busy with Frieza.

edited 9th Jul '15 11:46:16 AM by TobiasDrake

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#20559: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:48:35 AM

Give Hercule the Ultra Divine Water.

If it kills him, he could train with King Kai and maybe be up to Namek Saga, or at least Saiyan Saga standards.

edited 9th Jul '15 11:51:18 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20560: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:51:48 AM

I think that Videl is someone who, based on what we see in the Buu Saga, and after learning that ki was real and how to use it, would be genuinely interested in weight training and learning how to use ki blasts.

I can see Gohan not wanting to train with her, because of all of Gohan's hangups and stuff. I can see Gohan not sharing her interest in training, or not quite getting why she's so interested in it for its own sake.

But the way that the first episode of Super presents her is just a tad offputting. Especially considering this is supposed to be right after Buu.

I don't actually give a flying fuck how strong Videl becomes or what she does or does not do in big important fights. Don't even try to make it about that.

The reason I watch Dragon Ball, the reason I care isn't power levels or numbers or whatever. It is, and has always been, the characters.

For instance, Piccolo's reaction to Gohan and Videl's date? Basically perfect.

The faint hint of judging disappointment in the curve of Piccolo's mouth is basically the best possible defining moment for the character.

I dislike how Roshi has been constantly exaggerated and had his grosser tendencies played up and made worse the longer he's been around. I sorta miss the wise, compassionate Roshi from mid-Dragon Ball and the tournament arcs around that time.

And I hate the way that femininity and motherhood seem almost like a prison for almost all the female characters and that all of them, no matter what they were like before they entered into a relationship, all end up with the same roles and behaviors.

edited 9th Jul '15 12:03:01 PM by unnoun

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#20561: Jul 9th 2015 at 12:02:05 PM

I don't even think Hercule could have taken on prepubescent Krillin. We already had the "THEY'RE SO FAST! I CAN'T TRACK THEIR MOVEMENTS!" in the first Tournament.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20562: Jul 9th 2015 at 12:03:11 PM

Hercule does that too when fighting gunmen. So does Videl at points.

I mean, there was the eight arm guy, and at the Cell Games the beautiful flying rose attack guy jumps really really high in the air.

It's really not that special.

edited 9th Jul '15 12:05:23 PM by unnoun

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#20563: Jul 9th 2015 at 12:07:26 PM

....Eight Arm guy?

I know Tien grew two more arms out of his back that one time....

Jeez, that's a technique that went fucking nowhere.

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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#20564: Jul 9th 2015 at 12:13:34 PM

Because that technique is a precursor to the Multiform, a technique that is hilariously most useful outside of combat.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20565: Jul 9th 2015 at 12:14:29 PM

I meant the guy who moved his arms so fast it looked like he had eight.

Regular human martial artists in Dragon Ball are, in fact, superhuman by our standards.

I mean, it was Roshi and Shen's master who came up with the concept of ki.

I still like AMVs based around the concept of 16 telling Gohan to "Let it Go".

I am far too easily amused.

edited 9th Jul '15 12:18:38 PM by unnoun

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#20566: Jul 9th 2015 at 12:21:20 PM

....Are you talking about the one guy in Saint Seiya?

My various fanfics.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20567: Jul 9th 2015 at 12:22:59 PM

One of King Piccolo's kids killed him.

"Eight arms, try a hundred".

EDIT: King Chappa.

The guy who killed him was Tambourine.

edited 9th Jul '15 12:25:27 PM by unnoun

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#20569: Jul 9th 2015 at 2:35:04 PM

If 17 and 18 train, they're still training just their human parts. Their infinite energy generators will always be better than whatever their human parts could put out. No matter how much they train, they ain't never catching up to even Piccolo.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#20570: Jul 9th 2015 at 2:40:43 PM

Unlessss Piccolo keeps dropping like a hot potato.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20571: Jul 9th 2015 at 2:43:00 PM

A minion "As strong as Zarbon or Dodoria" can kick Piccolo's ass apparently.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#20573: Jul 9th 2015 at 2:52:53 PM

Don't mind the gore.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20574: Jul 9th 2015 at 2:54:22 PM

oh god grandpa gohan is in goku's sad

sad

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#20575: Jul 9th 2015 at 2:55:13 PM

What's up with Freezer's skull.


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