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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89901: Nov 16th 2018 at 7:16:41 PM

Like I said, wacky anime reasons.

Well, it worked out. I mean, Tights just had to take a bath, and the world got a protector actually worth a damn in the process...when he's not prioritizing a good fight that is...which he didn't start doing until Super truthfully.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#89902: Nov 16th 2018 at 7:18:00 PM

The Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc. An arc about a prisoner of the Galactic Patrol escaping reminds me of Watagash from those Great Saiyaman movie episodes.

Xeino Since: Jul, 2017
#89903: Nov 17th 2018 at 2:15:32 AM

Full Spoilers for the Broly movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFhlSNT1_Lc Overall, it sounds good if totally expected in the way it plays out.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#89904: Nov 17th 2018 at 2:18:38 AM

We made a spoiler thread for stuff like that.

So please put it here.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15422221640A72945100&page=8#185

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 17th 2018 at 2:20:10 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89905: Nov 17th 2018 at 2:30:37 AM

the Jaco manga's plot that Jaco is trying to find young Kakarrot, and if he doesn't find him, Jaco will detonate a bomb strong enough to destroy planet Earth?

Nope. Virus.

It's called a bomb. But it's specifically a population bomb. Extinction Bomb. The virus would exterminate all living things on the planet except the Saiyan, who are immune. The rock itself would still be there.

The reason is because the GP considers being killed in a Saiyan purge a Fate Worse than Death.

Which, like. When you factor in how much Saiyans eat, and that they have no qualms eating sapient beings. And that Saiyans look a lot like humans. And that Saiyans and humans are capable of reproduction, and Nappa specifically considered using Earth for breeding purposes.

So with all of that in mind, it's not exactly a position or opinion the Galactic Patrol has that I entirely disagree with.

(Granted, Nappa only suggested it because of how strong Gohan was, even calling him a "Super-Saiyan", and I doubt anyone, GP or otherwise, actually knew for sure that Saiyans and Earthlings were inter-fertile. So all that probably (?) wasn't actually part of the considerations.)

...Hell, even aside from all that, Vegeta's kind of a cruel dickhead, and the Saiyans have those creepy-ass Saibamen.

Anyway. The reason Jaco doesn't use the Extinction Bomb is that he assumes Kakarot's pod missed the planet.

when he's not prioritizing a good fight that is...which he didn't start doing until Super truthfully

wrong

Vegeta still gets most of the blame for Buu waking up, because he's the jackass who sold his soul and killed innocent people.

But Goku didn't push back nearly as hard as he could have or should have.

Didn't go right to Super Saiyan 3 and knock Vegeta out in one hit either.

...I dunno if Majins can be knocked out. Spopovich getting his neck broken. I wish that happened with Dabura or Vegeta. But the Earth has Dragon Balls, so. Just vaporize Vegeta with a Super Saiyan 3 Kamehameha.

Edited by unnoun on Nov 17th 2018 at 9:29:43 AM

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#89906: Nov 17th 2018 at 6:49:37 AM

I mean, Jaco seriously considered using the extinction bomb because a cranky old man he knew for a couple hours said some bad things about humanity. Then again, Jaco is an idiot.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89907: Nov 17th 2018 at 6:59:42 AM

That's also true.

And, if he wasn't, the universe wouldn't have been saved from Freeza and Cell and Buu. And Zamasu.

And Zen'O? Kinda? Like, the mortal level sucked, and he wouldn't have made a tournament to give the universes a chance.

Cell wouldn't have existed either though, I guess. And Zamasu either wouldn't have had a chance to cause problems, or he'd have found out about and taken Jiren's body or something.

Jiren Black.

Babidi still shows up in Trunks's timeline, and it's mentioned at points in Z that they weren't expecting Super Saiyans. Nobody expected Super Saiyans. They were going to get the energy they needed from Mr. Satan-tier fighters. Or just sucked dry the entire population of Earth. Which, without Gero and the androids, would have been a fairly healthy population.

Would still have taken a while though. As opposed to getting half of what they needed from a single Super Saiyan, and then the rest from another Super Saiyan the same day.

Point is, even if Goku and our Saiyans were the only ones strong enough to wake Buu in one shot, Babidi was obsessed enough with getting his Buu that he was willing to spend decades or centuries draining the Earth, the Galaxy, or the universe dry to get it.

And Goku and the others were also the only ones strong enough to stop Buu eventually.

It'd still have been nice if they weren't complete idiots that let Buu get resurrected in the first place.

But either way. Babidi would have had Dabura. Shin could paralyze Dabura or hurt Babidi, but not both. In the Trunks timeline he can immobilize Dabura for Trunks to kill Dabura, but Shin dies right after. Without Trunks, Babidi and Dabura win.

Edited by unnoun on Nov 17th 2018 at 10:19:49 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89908: Nov 17th 2018 at 7:48:50 AM

I can't believe I forgot the Majin Vegeta incident.

Though I guess it's because I mostly attribute that to retcons (Toriyama originally had Goku stating he and Vegeta were equally matched, so if he'd thought of Super Saiyan 3 earlier, he could have said that Goku wasn't sure what would happen if he used it on Earth and so tried to beat Vegeta without it, then added a scene where he openly considers using it finally near the end of their fight, only for Buu to finally be released).

Then again, Vegeta was murdering people in front of him, and that does tend to piss Goku off (especially since his wife could have been in the audience). It was still a dumb move, but I get Goku deciding his hand was forced...kinda.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89909: Nov 17th 2018 at 7:57:33 AM

I like how even Majin Vegeta is shocked by Goku threatening Shin.

Half the youtube comments are about Goku almost almost killing Beerus, which is a little funny too, frankly.

But. Shin starts with our heroes making him their bitch.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89910: Nov 17th 2018 at 8:00:05 AM

And he came to them for help.

Yeah, Shin really gets screwed to be honest. It doesn't help that everyone in-universe and out disrespects him for shit that's not his fault.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89911: Nov 17th 2018 at 8:09:07 AM

But, like. Every other God gets to have more respect and dignity at least first.

And Shin does start strong-ish. He terrifies Piccolo, and he apparently could have wrecked Freeza before Freeza trained anyway and he does seem to know things at first.

The Saiyans besides Gohan treat him with so much disrespect. Like, he doesn't expect them to be as strong as they are, but he's right that if they worked together, things could be done so much safer and maybe more importantly faster.

Just. If they all were just triple-teaming (or, with Shin's telekinesis, maybe even quadruple-teaming) Pui and Yakon and Dabura and Babidi they maybe could have gotten done in time for Vegeta and Goku's match. So the blame there lies more with our "heroes".

But then Elder Kai shows up and, despite being a goofball and a gross pervert, and being out of the game for billions of years, he still knows things that Shin doesn't about the job Shin's been doing for 5 Million years.

Elder Kai is the point where Shin goes from "he doesn't deserve all this disrespect" to "no, actually, he's getting exactly what he deserves."

Like, sure, some blame goes to Grand Supreme Kai, and Bibidi, and. I'd say Buu, but the extent to which Buu is too ignorant or innocent to actually be morally capable of anything is. Like, you don't waste time with assigning blame to a meteor or hurricane or fire or a disease. That's just forces of nature.

You can blame Beerus for not caring enough to see his counterpart's deficiencies. But equally, it's not Beerus's job either? It's not like he'd know how to fix it.

You could blame it on Zen'O, for not having a good enough support system or safety net for under-trained Supreme Kai, but that'd just get you erased. So let's not blame Zen'O for that.

Edited by unnoun on Nov 17th 2018 at 11:19:02 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89912: Nov 17th 2018 at 8:27:15 AM

I can blame Beerus for locking up Old Kai.

Also, I still don't think Shin deserves the disrespect for not knowing about Fusion considering the guy who would have taught him was killed before it could happen...which might not have happened if Beerus hadn't:

1) locked up the guy who was supposed to be doing the job;

and 2) slept through the entire thing (considering he could have been killed).

Hell, Whis could have woke him, but didn't.

And yeah, considering how much of a rush Vegeta was in, him, Goku and Gohan insisting on fighting 1 on 1 was really dumb. Then again, the point was to show how above everyone the saiyans were. That they were in the leagues of the lower level gods now...so that when Buu showed up, it would again show how fucked everyone was.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89913: Nov 17th 2018 at 8:33:38 AM

If old Kai wasnt sealed when Buu arrived he'd just have died too.

And you hit on the point, which is that the real villain everyone should blame is Toribot.

Edited by unnoun on Nov 17th 2018 at 11:35:46 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89914: Nov 17th 2018 at 8:39:44 AM

...

You're right.

I never liked that damn Toribot.

Though I do wonder if Bibidi was aware that Old Kai wasn't around when he launched his plan. The fact that a bunch of replacements were doing his job at the same time he unleashed Buu could be a coincidence (because DB is rife with those...hell, it' built on massive coincidences of the heroes and villains stumbling upon each other....or at least that's how it is in the first arc) or it could be him seeing his opportunity.

It's not really clear what his motivations are beyond I'm a dick.

Edit: Also, I think if Old Kai had been there, he might have caught things. He seemed somewhat more on the ball.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Nov 17th 2018 at 9:40:25 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89915: Nov 17th 2018 at 8:41:34 AM

I mean, South Supreme Kai apparently wrecked Kid Buu's shit before he got absorbed. Which could mean he's as strong as or stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89916: Nov 17th 2018 at 9:35:13 AM

That is true. he was at least enough of a threat that Buu resorted to absorption rather than trying to kill him outright as he did with everyone else.

One Strip! One Strip!
Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#89917: Nov 17th 2018 at 10:22:57 AM

It's actually 1000% Grand Supreme Kai's fault, because he could have used the Potara to fuse with Southy and easily beat Buu. But he did not bother to do so. Instead he allowed himself and his colleagues to face Buu unfused, which had Buu been a tiny bit more thorough or attacked in different order, would have led to all their deaths plus Beerus's death and Whis)'s deactivation, and the eventual destruction of all life in Universe 7.

Shin commented in the Super manga that Grand wasn't very smart, which may explain why Super Buu (seemingly modeled on South) is fairly intelligent while Fat Buu (modeled on Grand) is a Fat Idiot.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Nov 17th 2018 at 10:24:18 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89918: Nov 17th 2018 at 10:34:09 AM

It's actually 1000% Grand Supreme Kai's fault, because he could have used the Potara to fuse with Southy and easily beat Buu. But he did not bother to do so. Instead he allowed himself and his colleagues to face Buu unfused, which had Buu been a tiny bit more thorough or attacked in different order, would have led to all their deaths plus Beerus's death and Whis)'s deactivation, and the eventual destruction of all life in Universe 7.

Wait, what? I don't recall there being any indication that the order in which they challenged Buu was deliberate. I got the impression that they just kinda stumbled across him and got murdered (or at least West Supreme Kai did, since she was the first to fight him) and that by the time they were fully aware of what they were dealing with, he was already cutting a bloody swath through them. Hell, in the manga—besides Shin—only South and Grand were actually shown. We only heard about the others

Shin commented in the Super manga that Grand wasn't very smart, which may explain why Super Buu (seemingly modeled on South) is fairly intelligent while Fat Buu (modeled on Grand) is a Fat Idiot.

When did he say that?

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89919: Nov 17th 2018 at 10:35:17 AM

In the manga Gowasu asks why Grand never used Potara.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89920: Nov 17th 2018 at 10:38:25 AM

[up]

Huh. I guess I forgot that.

So are we retconning that it was Grand Supreme Kai's kindhearted nature that pacified Buu and saying he was just a dumbass then?

Cause I'm rather tired of retcons in DB to be frank.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89921: Nov 17th 2018 at 10:47:31 AM

Personally, I'd say Buff Buu would be more South Supreme Kai than Super Buu.

Edited by unnoun on Nov 17th 2018 at 1:47:45 PM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#89922: Nov 17th 2018 at 10:56:24 AM

Watching clips of Dragon Ball Super and thinking about the upcoming movie have got me to consider watching DBS. But I recall reading the first handful of episodes are essentially retellings of Battle of Gods and Resurrection F.

Should I...

  • watch the movies first and watch Super at the part that isn't a retelling of those movies?
  • just watch Super from the start?

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Nov 17th 2018 at 2:06:31 PM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#89923: Nov 17th 2018 at 11:01:19 AM

The first one. The retellings are inferior.

This song needs more love.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89924: Nov 17th 2018 at 11:07:07 AM

I mean. The movie recap arcs are so bad.

Resurrection F wasn't a great movie to begin with, but I think of Battle of Gods (the movie) as being one of the best bits of Dragon Ball anything ever. That I've seen. I haven't seen Super Broly. What I've heard makes me think it could top BOG for me, but. Jury's out.

The Super version of Resurrection F. The animation is garbage, but the actual story might be slightly better? But only barely. And that says more about how subpar or mediocre Resurrection F is to begin with.

...One of the things I liked about BOG as a movie was the story, and the Super version changes it! They ruined Beerus's fantastic personality and charisma to make him a no-fun, sneering, generically evil loser, that's too lame to even know how to breakdance, they took out Vegeta singing, and.

...I like the fight itself in the Super version, because I like Goku biting people. But aside from that.

...Honestly, even the new arcs in Super aren't spectacular. Like, I like the concept of Zamasu, and he has his moments. But he's still. Not. Great?

Honestly, the best part of Super, especially before the Tournament of Power, is the filler.

Piccolo and baby Pan, and Goku and baby Pan, and Great Saiyaman and baby Pan are all fantastic.

Edited by unnoun on Nov 17th 2018 at 2:07:59 PM

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#89925: Nov 17th 2018 at 12:08:11 PM

[up][up][up] Episodes 1-2, BOG, 15-18, RF, then continue on with DBS.

The only thing you'll miss is Super Saiyan Videl and Ginyu's return.

Edited by Rinsankajugin on Nov 17th 2018 at 2:09:34 PM


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