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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#89851: Nov 15th 2018 at 9:55:59 PM

Then stop posting.

If you can't back up your arguments, don't come in here just telling people they're wrong and you kust know better.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#89852: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:00:41 PM

No, there have been years upon years for humans to study what is good and what is bad. What people appreciate in art vs what people don't. There are rules to art, and when you break those rules, you damn sure need to compensate in some other way to make the rule-breaking intentional. Humans are the only arbiters of quality, there is no other. Humans are the only ones who can decide what is good in our eyes vs what isn't, and we are the only ones who have that authority because there isn't anyone above us.

Wait, what are you even saying? First it sounds like you're saying art is objective and there's only one way to do it, implying a total ignorance of the birth of new styles including ones like dadaism, which was intended as an expression of dismissal for art itself because we didn't deserve it. But then you go and say 'we define what's good' which is the very definition of subjectivity.

If something is truly terrible (not like the Dragon Ball Super Manga, more like Dragonball Evolution), and doesn't hold up on a fundamental level, it isn't merely "an opinion" that it is bad. There are many totally valid reasons to say it's bad, just because someone disagrees doesn't mean they're right just because they think they are. It just means they're wrong about what's good and what isn't.

Yes, it is merely an opinion. Show me a handful of Bad, please. You can criticize the writing, but that's merely your opinion. Everyone on Earth might agree with you, but value judgments do not exist in nature.

If someone thinks that Hitler wasn't a bad person, that someone is objectively wrong, and there are plenty of valid reasons why Hitler was a bad person, primarily the genocide. That person can have the opinion that genocide isn't a bad thing, but they're not right to think that. That just makes them a bad person, too.

Okay, setting aside the Godwin's Law violation, you need to set a framework in order to define his actions. That framework can include certain moral values or base itself off of his political, social and historical achievements, but once you have that framework you have, by definition, moved out of objectivity. Because you're making value judgments. Which is subjectivity.

Not all artistic judgments are subjective. I can look back at an idea I had years ago and cringe because of how inherently awful that idea is. Like, there is no possible way to make that idea work without offending people and my current self, and I'm ashamed I ever wrote it down. I can also look back at ideas that I still find are good and have merit. If I turn in an obviously half-assed and bad script for an assignment, my teacher is totally in the right to dock me points based on objective quality, because that script sucked.

But you see, your terrible idea from the past may have been unworkable, it may have had plot holes or any number of issues, but all of those issues are based off subjective criteria. And someone out there probably would have been fine with your story. You were. There is no way to point to the story and define objectively how it is 'bad' without making a subjective definition of 'good' that it fails to meet.

[up][up][up]No. Just, just no. I took a class on ethics, and the whole point of the first half of the class was about establishing that all of the arguments against a moral objectivity are deeply problematic when you look at them, and moral objectivity is totally a thing that exists.

Oh wow, you took a class. People study this shit their entire lives without coming up with a satisfactory answer. They've been arguing about ethics, morals and philosophy for thousands of years without doing more than coming up with frameworks or poking holes in each other arguments. Show me an objective good and I'll show you how it can be bad or completely at odds with another 'objectively' good thing.

Edit: Oh yeah a little bird told me that people were being wrong on the internet and I couldn't let that stand.

Edited by Arha on Nov 15th 2018 at 12:01:08 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#89853: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:12:44 PM

No. Just, just no. I took a class on ethics, and the whole point of the first half of the class was about establishing that all of the arguments against a moral objectivity are deeply problematic when you look at them, and moral objectivity is totally a thing that exists.

I "took a class on ethics" too, so that argument held no meaning even before Saiga and Arha ripped it a new one. Moral objectivity- or artistic objectivity -does not and cannot exist.

To bring things back onto the subject of Dragon Ball, take a look at Zamasu and his Zero Mortal Plan. He's pretty thoroughly convinced that it's the righteous path. Can you objectively disprove his claims?

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Nov 15th 2018 at 1:21:28 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#89854: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:22:12 PM

So yeah, that Dragon ball is certainly a thing.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#89855: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:24:38 PM

Y'all gonna get Heroes when it actually comes out? It's not a fighter like most other DB games, so that should breath in some fresh air.

Edited by Rinsankajugin on Nov 15th 2018 at 12:26:31 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#89856: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:27:16 PM

How does it even work on consoles? I was under the impression it was some kind of collectible card game.

Does the game itself just contain a built-in gachapon system for earning digital cards?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#89857: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:28:51 PM

Yeah, there have been a bunch of Yugioh games on cobsoles that work like that and Ultimate Mission worked that way.

I wonder if it will have support to read the physical cards in addition to that.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#89858: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:31:18 PM

Right, I had one of those Yu-Gi-Oh games on the GBA, I figured it was something like that.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#89859: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:31:26 PM

Heroes is an arcade game that uses cards to control the characters on a second touch screen. It's why it was so easy to port the games to the 3DS, since it had a dual-0-screen. According to Dimps, they were somehow able to fit those mechanics on a single screen for the Switch somehow.

Also yes, the Heroes cards come in-game, you don't need the physical cards to play.

[up][up] Not sure if that'll be a thing, doesn't the Switch only do that with amiibo?

Edited by Rinsankajugin on Nov 15th 2018 at 12:32:20 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#89860: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:36:26 PM

Okay, well, the whole first half of the class was almost entirely devoted to debunking theories of ethical subjectivism. I found the class very compelling, and it completely convinced me that ethical objectivism is a thing. If I, or the teacher, is wrong, than whatever. "It's all just opinions anyway", my opinion is just that it's not all just opinions.

Mostly, I'm just tired and upset in general. This spiraled way out of my control, and I honestly feel really emotionally exhausted from this whole ordeal. Can we please end it here? Agree to disagree? Agree that I lost? Whatever, I just want it to be over and done with, I'm on the verge of tears.

Can we just talk about something dumb right now? Please? Like Dragon Ball Heroes. Are there any more pictures of Mecha Zamasu out there? I need a good laugh.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Nov 15th 2018 at 11:37:31 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#89861: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:42:08 PM

Seriously, Rinsankajugin, are there any more pictures of Mecha Zamasu? I really do need something to lighten my mood.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#89862: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:42:26 PM

Well, I don't mind leaving it at that. The last thing I'm going to say is that I'm not sure you understand objectivity. If so that may be the source of the argument to begin with.

Anyway, I'm out again.

Edited by Arha on Nov 15th 2018 at 12:43:03 PM

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#89863: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:44:42 PM

I've already said before, that's the only one at the moment. Here's some funny fanart of him, though.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#89864: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:46:17 PM

[up]That helped.

[up][up]That did not.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#89865: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:48:51 PM

"I'm already a ningen."

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#89866: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:53:18 PM

There's over 300 characters in World Mission according to Dimps, so which 7 characters would you have in your deck? I think these would be my picks:

  • Quitela
  • Liqour
  • Angered Beerus
  • Dyspo
  • Cumber
  • Tarble
  • Hoverchair Frieza

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#89867: Nov 15th 2018 at 10:54:12 PM

For what it's worth, that was not intended as an insult but rather my suspicion that the argument was based on miscommunication due to different meanings when both parties spoke of objectivity and subjectivity.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#89868: Nov 15th 2018 at 11:23:04 PM

Hmm, any 7 characters in Heroes. I think I'd go with Goku Black, Turles, Goku (Berserk), Fighterz Clone Goku... are there any other evil Gokus? I don't want to repeat any characters (aside from Goku in the broadest sense, obviously), but I can't think of too many more. Is Ginyu in Goku's body in Heroes?

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#89869: Nov 16th 2018 at 12:07:42 AM

I don't know if Goku Ginyu is in the game, but I do know Clone Goku is only a boss fight. If you want a team of evil Goku's/look-a-likes, I think this would be good:

  • Turles
  • Xeno Turles
  • Berserk Xeno Turles
  • Goku Black
  • SSR Goku Black
  • SSBerserk Goku
  • Masked Saiyan (Time Breaker Bardock)

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#89870: Nov 16th 2018 at 12:11:48 AM

Which characters are only in the game as bosses? Also, which characters from the Tournament of Power are in (excluding U6 and U7)?

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Nov 16th 2018 at 1:12:03 PM

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#89871: Nov 16th 2018 at 12:43:08 AM

Since the arcade mode of World Mission only covers from SDBH 1 to Universe Mission 2, boss-only characters would be:

  • Demon Realm Soldier (Normal, Sigma, Omega, Delta)
  • Demon Realm Reaper
  • Enhanced Remodel Dr. Gero (he has yellow eyes)
  • Full Power Super Janemba (he has red eyes and a black/white aura)
  • DBFZ Clones (Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Gohan, Krillin, Yamcha, Piccolo)
  • Majin 21 (she didn't become playable until Universe Mission 3)

As for Tournament of Power characters, the following are playable:

  • Zeno
  • Grand Priest
  • Iwen
  • Helles
  • Ribrianne
  • Mosco
  • Katopesla
  • Aniraza
  • Quitela
  • Ganos
  • Arak
  • Kale (Base, Legendary)
  • Caulifla (SS2)
  • Kafla (SS)
  • Goku (SSBKK x20, Omen, UI)
  • Vegeta (SSBE)
  • Liqour
  • Sidra
  • Bergamo
  • Rumoosh
  • Obuni
  • Vermoud
  • Marcarita
  • Jiren (Base, Ultimate Full Power)
  • Toppo
  • Dyspo
  • Geene

That reminds me, the Heroes channel released a trailer for it's new boss mission, the return of the Majin villains!

Edited by Rinsankajugin on Nov 16th 2018 at 3:43:02 AM

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#89872: Nov 16th 2018 at 3:09:33 AM

I'll prolly get heroes if/when it gets here. Heck, I've thought of mail ordering a few cards just to have.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89873: Nov 16th 2018 at 6:18:12 AM

No but seriously, the lack of Dragon Ball Evolution in Heroes is actually jarring with all the other dumb Bullshit.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#89874: Nov 16th 2018 at 8:06:49 AM

TOP ends this month, but we're getting a manga exclusive arc. So there was no movie deadline at all.

And I love how Arha just came in for no other purpose than to disagree with Pushover.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#89875: Nov 16th 2018 at 8:08:47 AM

Wait, so it's not going directly into the Broly arc? How weird. I would have thought Toyotaro would have been jumping to write Broly, given how much he loves him.


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