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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89576: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:09:25 PM

As far as I can tell, Kaioken Blue times 20 isn't actually 20 times stronger than Super Saiyan Blue.

It doesn't ever seem like it anyway.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#89577: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:12:56 PM

But Goku and Vegeta aren't supposed to be so willing to fuse, it'd be weird that the situation convinces them to fuse if it can't even trigger UI in Goku (considering how Omen triggered really easily when he fought Kafla)

I also wouldn't count on fusion being weaker than UI, Broly has been hyped up as stronger than the previous enemies which should include Jiren.

Only in a video game magazine. Where everyone gets such hype, such as Jiren being hyped up as the strongest guy Goku's ever fought or Beerus being hyped as the strongest in the history of Dragon Ball. Come their debuts and they're clearly weaker than Whis thus invalidating their statements. It doesn't actually mean anything (if nothing else Broly is definitely not stronger than Multiversal Zamasu was).

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#89578: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:13:16 PM

Super is very bad about portraying that.

In saying that, Toei has always been bad about portraying the differences in transformations and Super has just exacerbated that.

[up] I don't think any of those statements were meant to include Whis, so you can't just toss them out based on that. Especially when Beerus DID turn out stronger than the previous enemies and Jiren turned out stronger than Beerus - you may have a point if they gave that hype to Hit or Black. And we can't power scale Infinite Zamasu at all.

I won't say that Broly is stronger than Jiren just off that, but it does make me believe they'll probably throw some dialogue in the movie about him being the strongest or most unthinkable ki they've felt etc

Edited by Saiga on Nov 13th 2018 at 1:17:28 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89579: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:19:35 PM

I dont think Jiren is stronger than Whis, actually?

I feel like there's enough room between Beerus and Whis for both Broly and Jiren to fit.

Broly is definitely not stronger than Multiversal Zamasu was

Strictly in terms of ki-based power level, Multiversal Zamasu was as much of a weak-ass bitch as he was before then.

Edited by unnoun on Nov 12th 2018 at 10:21:16 AM

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#89580: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:21:12 PM

I don't think any of those statements were meant to include Whis, so you can't just toss them out based on that. Especially when Beerus DID turn out stronger than the previous enemies and Jiren turned out stronger than Beerus - you may have a point if they gave that hype to Hit or Black. And we can't power scale Infinite Zamasu at all.

I won't say that Broly is stronger than Jiren just off that, but it does make me believe they'll probably throw some dialogue in the movie about him being the strongest or most unthinkable ki they've felt etc

I mean they literally do have to include Whis, because he's a guy in the "history of Dragon Ball" (for the purposes of Beerus's V-Jump entry) and a guy who Goku has fought before (for the purposes of Jiren's V-Jump entry). And we can't give Infinite Zamasu a battle power, but we can definitely say he's stronger than everyone else because he's a completely unstoppable Reality Warper with Complete Immortality. Neither Jiren nor Broly will ever be as powerful as him.

Well, we'll have to see. If they're not whipping out UI or a new power-up for him but rather relying on an inferior version of the power-up that three arcs ago failed to defeat the villain, he just doesn't seem like a big deal.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Nov 12th 2018 at 7:24:35 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89581: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:22:56 PM

Goku never fought Whis before Beerus.

Beerus and Whis were introduced at the same time.

When Beerus was introduced, him being the strongest in the history of Dragon Ball was true.

Oh, and at the end there's one stronger.

Also, in fairness, Zamasu cheated. I dunno if Ultra Instinct or Whis or of one Grand Priest fused with another Grand Priest could kill him either.

Zamasu couldn't be killed by Martial Arts.

Edited by unnoun on Nov 12th 2018 at 10:25:20 AM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#89582: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:25:04 PM

Sounds like more spoilers came out and it's looking like Frieza is the most sympathetic character in the movie. Dude just wants the Dragon Balls to wish to be taller.

This song needs more love.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#89584: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:26:14 PM

I'd be fine with Broly being weaker than Jiren, simply because without Ultra Instinct, that level of power is still a threat to Goku and Vegeta. Closest is Blue Evolved Vegeta, and he only got strong enough to beat Toppo because of a rage boost.

[up][up]No freakin' way.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Nov 12th 2018 at 8:26:45 AM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#89585: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:31:12 PM

Yeah Whis was not part of the history of DB until Beerus was introduced.

Whis has only trained with Goku, per his own words he doesn't "fight"

I do not believe the quote about Jiren was meant to make people believe that he was stronger than Whis.

It can't be concidental that only Beerus and Jiren, two characters who were stronger than the previous antagonists got that description.

And Zamasu's status at the end of the arc isn't related to strength and should not be conflated with it. Nowhere is HE said to be the strongest so that should not be stated as though it were fact.

Edit: I'm also fine with Broly being weaker than Jiren, I was expecting the next antagonist to be weaker than Jiren but now I'm not convinced that will be the case.

Edited by Saiga on Nov 13th 2018 at 1:32:23 AM

ZeroDozer Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!! from Santo André, SP, Brazil Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!!
#89586: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:31:21 PM

[up][up][up][up] Thanks for killing all the cred of these rumors.

[up] Broly will still be weaker than Jiren. It only happens that Toriyama's work avoids upgrades he didn't make, like SSB Kaioken and SSBB.

[down] The rumor about Frieza, which I assume having come from the same place as the others.

Edited by ZeroDozer on Nov 12th 2018 at 1:34:35 PM

Growing up, it's like a civil war, don't turn away, it's something you can't ignore...
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#89588: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:34:17 PM

This makes the rumors more credible in my opinion. That is totally something Toriyama would write.

This song needs more love.
ZeroDozer Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!! from Santo André, SP, Brazil Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!!
#89589: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:35:47 PM
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89590: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:39:06 PM

He's also literally a space realtor.

He's as evil as he is because Earth realtors are that evil.

He's named after a freezer, his goons are named after fruit except his elite squad that's named after milk.

Edited by unnoun on Nov 12th 2018 at 10:42:06 AM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#89591: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:41:38 PM

If anyone would do it, it's Toriyama.

This song needs more love.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89592: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:43:00 PM

To me, this confirms that the rumors are true, and thinking otherwise is delusional.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#89593: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:45:20 PM

Freeza has TWO transformations that turn him into a giant, why in the world would he waste a wish on wanting to be taller?! Especially since he has an established wish, which is to become immortal.

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#89594: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:45:40 PM

but...why doesnt he just regress a form or two forms if he wants to be taller.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#89595: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:45:50 PM

He was tired of being mogged by his taller dad and brother. But that just begs the question, why didn't he give himself super-long robot legs after becoming a cyborg?

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89596: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:46:10 PM

I mean, maybe he doesnt wanna look like his dad.

Maybe he just wants to be a giant dildo.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#89597: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:47:18 PM

He was tired of being dwarfed by the other villains in group shots.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Nov 12th 2018 at 7:49:39 AM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#89598: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:47:48 PM

Apparently he doesn't want to be immortal anymore. He doesn't think it will help with killing Goku.

This song needs more love.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89599: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:49:26 PM

I call bullshit until I see it for myself.

And if it happens afterwards, I call bullshit forever.

So says Rob.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89600: Nov 12th 2018 at 7:50:57 PM

I mean.

But, like.

...I mean, I honestly dunno if Multiversal Zamasu could actually beat Goku, come to think of it. Or, if he could, only because of how worn down Goku was by Zamasu's stronger forms, like Merged Zamasu, which are (probably maybe) stronger than Golden Freeza.

...Also, he's going to Earth, and I'm not sure that Shenron could have given Multiversal Zamasu levels of immortality anyway.

How would Freeza even find the Super Dragon Balls anyways?

Edited by unnoun on Nov 12th 2018 at 10:53:35 AM


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