TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#89076: Oct 30th 2018 at 4:53:18 PM

Did Chiaotzu actually try to use his psychic powers on Nappa in the manga?
Yes.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89077: Oct 30th 2018 at 4:59:57 PM

in particular, literally every single thing Raditz said in his shocking monologue (except that Goku is a Saiyan and that Saiyans are warriors) was retconned

I'm still shocked that Raditz says "you could never have forgotten me" when both the Bardock Special and Dragon Ball Minus seem to indicate that Kakarot and Raditz never met, and also that low class Saiyan siblings wouldnt give enough of a shit to know or remember each other.

Also "I suppose you've forgotten that Vegeta, the Saiyan homeworld was destroyed" is such an odd thing to say even at the time and even in context when he also says that they only survived by not being there.

Like. By definition how do you "forget" that. How would he have known it to remember in the first place if Earth was the planet he was sent to and he didnt leave it.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 30th 2018 at 8:00:10 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#89078: Oct 30th 2018 at 5:03:59 PM

The anime had a filler episode where Goku's pod projected a fake moon and kept telling him to "do his duty" or something. Going off that, it sort of seems like the babies are given information about where they came from and what they're supposed to be doing that way.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89079: Oct 30th 2018 at 5:06:09 PM

I mean, like.

Why would the pod give a shit about his brother though. Nobody else ever does.

Like, Toei loves Bardock, and in the Bardock special there's moments where he talks like he has one son singular.

I honestly doubt that even a pod in filler would remember Raditz exists.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 30th 2018 at 8:07:33 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89080: Oct 30th 2018 at 5:11:57 PM

It does kinda feel like even Toriyama wants to forget Raditz is a thing.

Almost makes you think maybe it was a mistake to make him and Goku brothers, since it had no effect on anything at all.

Well ok. Not just Almost. It was a mistake.

One Strip! One Strip!
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#89081: Oct 30th 2018 at 5:12:04 PM

If Goku fought with his teeth more, he would invincible.

Maybe Buu actually tastes like bubblegum. But i wouldn't recommend eating him, not after what happened to the last dude that ate Buu

Uni cat
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89082: Oct 30th 2018 at 5:13:31 PM

[up][up] I mean. I almost disagree with you there.

It's a mistake to make Raditz Goku's brother, and then make Goku's parent(s) good (ish) people.

I like Gine and I like Raditz, having both Gine and Raditz as part of the story makes things. Weird.

Like, even ignoring if changing the story like that makes it better or worse, it adds a little asterisk of inconsistency that.

Like. It can be explained. But that requires giving enough of a shit about Raditz to tell that story.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 30th 2018 at 8:17:09 AM

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#89083: Oct 30th 2018 at 5:17:14 PM

It does kinda feel like even Toriyama wants to forget Raditz is a thing.
Opposite. He's been nostalgia baiting Raditz hard recently, giving him a pointless cameo in the pointless Minus and apparently featuring him in the new movie.
Almost makes you think maybe it was a mistake to make him and Goku brothers, since it had no effect on anything at all.
The effect was to underline the theme of the arc. Raditz being dead and forgotten rubs that in; he was nothing to Goku but another murderous thug, his blood doesn't change that and he gets no special treatment by the narrative just because he popped out of the same womb.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Oct 30th 2018 at 5:18:35 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89084: Oct 30th 2018 at 5:18:18 PM

[up][up]

Well, it just that we constantly make jokes about how totally irrelevant Raditz is. Those jokes exist because he really shouldn't be irrelevant.

He's the evil older brother of the main characters, who's mere arrival completely shatters the current status quo and upon up the entire universe to the characters, where previously, they'd never left their own home

But he's also just a Starter Villain who dies within a few chapters of his appearance, is never mentioned again by anyone, and his familial relation to said main character doesn't mean anything.

Raditz didn't really need to be Goku's brother for the role he played. Everything else about him is fine.

[up] Maybe that was the issue, but with Toriyama's recent comments about how Goku only sees his family as close companions and that he still barely seems to grasp familial relations, it really feels like Raditz didn't need to be Goku's brother.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Oct 30th 2018 at 6:19:47 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89085: Oct 30th 2018 at 5:20:54 PM

If nothing else, I sorta wish sometimes Vegeta would make fun of Goku in the context of Raditz.

Make unfavorable comparisons.

That sort of thing.

Vegeta doesn't care about Raditz, what with not wishing Raditz back, but he also spends a lot of Dragon Ball Z really hating Goku.

Also, it'd be fun if Goku has character tics that he apparently shares with Raditz.

Shifting from foot to foot sometimes or. I dunno, anything.

And they just piss Vegeta off.

More than that, Vegeta does bring up Goku's unnoble birth and blood and him being predestined to be low-class a bunch, so. Blood being important to Vegeta would make sense.

Maybe that was the issue, but with Toriyama's recent comments about how Goku only sees his family as close companions and that he still barely seems to grasp familial relations, it really feels like Raditz didn't need to be Goku's brother.

Like, those comments apparently also apply to Saiyans as a whole, with Bardock possibly not knowing if he has siblings.

So that being the case, it's weird that Raditz cares, or that Raditz brings it up.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 30th 2018 at 8:29:14 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89086: Oct 30th 2018 at 5:50:15 PM

Well, I suppose Early-Installment Weirdness (or Mid Installment Weirdness) was in affect.

There were still a lot of things Toriyama hadn't hammered out about the Saiyans yet. I've accused him of softening them, but he may not have intended for them to seem as villainous as they might have come off.

Sure, they ain't nice, and Vegeta was the primary representative of Saiyan culture for years (since Goku was raised on earth) but as we've discussed, Vegeta seemed to be much more evil than any other Saiyans who've appeared and isn't really a fair representative of their race.

One Strip! One Strip!
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#89087: Oct 30th 2018 at 5:51:07 PM

Vegeta and Frieza are basically the same person pre-redemption arc, which is only emphasized when you see Vegeta genocide a Namekian village for their Dragon Ball just like Frieza had been doing.

I guess Frieza is a bit more of a sadist, though. If the situation was reversed, I can't imagine Vegeta raising a young Frieza to be his servant.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89088: Oct 30th 2018 at 5:59:35 PM

i still dream of the return of monster carrot

boss rabbit

whatever

like, they go back to the moon and he's just still there

someone points out how that doesn't make sense because the moon's been blown up like three times since then and boom. carrot.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#89089: Oct 30th 2018 at 6:00:33 PM

How does the earth even work without the Moon around?

It's like not having a nose. Wait...

Uni cat
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89090: Oct 30th 2018 at 6:01:53 PM

they assume that he's weak but somehow he's been training on the moon instead of making toys and he's mastered ultra instinct

only his is orange because carrots

goku with his orange gi and white hair and aura, monster carrot with orange fur and aura and a white moon gi

beerus tries a hakai and monster carrot reverses it and beerus turns into a pile of carrots

they try a multiversal spirit bomb and none of it works

even goku ultra instinct or jiren. nothin'

then the zenos sacrifice themselves by taking him into an alternate timeline and erasing it and themselves. leaving trunks and mai homeless again. also fuck the zenos

then there's a happy ending except monster carrot is still there in an empty void

then he pulls off his head and gasp it was toribot all along

perfect ending.

oh, but before that, goku gets carroted but he can still do things because "haven't you heard vegeta always calls me? I'm already a carrot!"

like, people stronger than goku are still helpless as carrots, goku's immunity is explicitly because of the only force more powerful than power level: puns

Edited by unnoun on Oct 30th 2018 at 9:21:40 AM

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#89091: Oct 30th 2018 at 6:09:17 PM

Still a better arc than the Tournament of Power.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89092: Oct 30th 2018 at 6:15:04 PM

Monster Carrot is already the best villain in terms of design hands down.

None have his coolness, his sex appeal, his style, his poise, his grace.

His sweet-ass car.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#89093: Oct 30th 2018 at 6:15:46 PM

Imagine if there exist an alt dimension where there lies a character that can oppose Zeno

Uni cat
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#89094: Oct 30th 2018 at 6:16:33 PM

Raditz role makes sense.

At first you would think that he would be important by virtue of being the main protags brother but the twist is.... he wasn’t important.

Goku had no reason to care for him. He never knew he existed, was sent as a baby to an unknown by a family who couldn’t care less whether he lived or died, & to top it all Raditz was nothing more than a cowardly thug.

Goku has no reason to give a flying fuck about him. The blood they share is nothing than liquid.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89095: Oct 30th 2018 at 6:17:00 PM

There is.

And it's Monster Carrot.

After training for 4 months, maybe he'll reach a power level of 1.3 million

[up] Except a lot of that is retconned and not true anymore. So.

And, like. Even in the Bardock special I don't think it was Kakarot's family that sent him in the pod.

It seemed like a random doctor.

A random, PTO/Freeza Force doctor that wasn't even a Saiyan. Looked like a bird to me.

It's not even "his family sent him off and didn't care" as much as "this group of space realtors that enslaved his family and species sent him and didn't care".

Edited by unnoun on Oct 30th 2018 at 9:20:21 AM

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#89096: Oct 30th 2018 at 6:17:29 PM

[up] But can he block?

Uni cat
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89097: Oct 30th 2018 at 6:19:41 PM

Back in the day, Goku's lack of mastery of the Kamehameha made him a legitimate threat.

I mean, things that Goku can't just punch out or push back with wind pressure or blast with Ki are very rare.

It's not that Goku can't beat enemies by outsmarting them, or with something besides brute force (and he has a ridiculous amount of options for doing just that) but he rarely has to due to power levels.

More enemies like Monster Carrot (with abilities that force Goku to be more creative) would be cool.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#89098: Oct 30th 2018 at 6:20:08 PM

[up][up][up] Irrelevant.

Goku still no reason to care about some thug & his perception of his family is still a bunch of bandits & thieves.

They don’t matter to him.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 30th 2018 at 6:20:28 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#89099: Oct 30th 2018 at 6:24:01 PM

So is there going to be an extended cut of the movie that actually uses the full 3 fucking hours that Toriyama apparently wrote?

Are we going to see the 1 and a half hours of that which are apparently getting cut or trimmed out? Is it going to go into another movie or?

I'm honestly shocked that Toriyama decided to marathon all three Broly Movies and:

A) didn't kill himself sometime during Second Coming

and

B) wrote a fucking 3 hour script

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#89100: Oct 30th 2018 at 6:33:02 PM

That actually is surprising. I mean, that's a some pretty strong work ethic for someone who claims to be a lazy bum.

Maybe those dudes who said that Toriyama being able to write things at the last minute so well proves how good he is were actually right.

I mean, it would mean anyone who ever mocked him for being lazy (myself included) would not only have to eat crow, but a whole damn murder.

That's a lot of crows.

One Strip! One Strip!

Total posts: 130,800
Top