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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#88901: Oct 25th 2018 at 8:26:00 PM

Characters leaving and coming back for specific reasons should've been more of a thing.

Considering the idea of Karrot not really being sociable with his friends, the fact that everyone is almost always around doesn't make sense.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
vicarious vicarious from NC, USA Since: Feb, 2013
vicarious
#88902: Oct 25th 2018 at 8:26:54 PM

Who is stronger, Jiren or Fused Zamasu going full energy??

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88903: Oct 25th 2018 at 8:38:47 PM

Jiren in both versions, for different reasons.

In the anime Vegeta outright says that a heavily suppressed Jiren has the greatest ki he's ever encountered, automatically putting him above Fused Zamasu.

In the manga, Fused Zamasu is only equal to CSSB Goku, who is equal to Toppo, who was defeated by one strike from not-SSBE Vegeta, who was utterly No-Sold and wrecked by a heavily suppressed Jiren.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88904: Oct 25th 2018 at 8:39:38 PM

I was talking about Broly Rob.

Roshi has a face not even a mother could love.

Don't underestimate the love of mothers.

@Rob That seems pretty obvious. Ten's character arc had concluded, while Piccolo and Vegeta started their arcs after that.

Oh right. I keep forgetting Tien's entire arc was encompassed in his first appearance.

Same for Yamcha now that I think about it.

Huh. Only Krillin and Piccolo Jr have arcs that continue into the post Saiyan Saga. I guess technically Bulma does as well, what with her shacking up with Vegeta and all. I mean, It took Toriyama a while to perfect the art of long term character arcs, though once he got his groove on that it did start to be a thing.

One Strip! One Strip!
vicarious vicarious from NC, USA Since: Feb, 2013
vicarious
#88905: Oct 25th 2018 at 8:43:57 PM

Huh

For some reason, I had pegged a Fused Zamasu before suffering from body paradox to be at least suppressed Jiren level while Multiverse Zamasu is above even full power Jiren

Or at the very least Fused Zamasu was more durable

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88906: Oct 25th 2018 at 8:56:35 PM

Well in both versions Zamasu cannot be killed, ever, by anything other than the entire multiverse he's in being annihilated in one shot. So he'd beat Jiren in a fight; even if he's incapable of hurting the guy he could just wait for him to exhaust himself. But at that point he's "Infinite Zamasu", not Fused Zamasu. Or at least that's how the fan nicknames go.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#88907: Oct 25th 2018 at 9:01:57 PM

So what if Zamasu fights one of the androids and they prove to be stronger than him.

Stalemate?

Uni cat
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88908: Oct 25th 2018 at 9:02:41 PM

...I guess. In theory it's possible.

One Strip! One Strip!
Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88909: Oct 25th 2018 at 9:06:23 PM

He'll just keep expanding/spawning clones until it doesn't matter how much stronger they are.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#88910: Oct 25th 2018 at 9:12:30 PM

This is ignoring the fact that Merged Zamasu is probably a lot stronger than 17 and 18.

Hell, Black could maybe take on 17

Uni cat
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88911: Oct 25th 2018 at 9:13:18 PM

Would it? Depending on how strong the Androids are, then it literally doesn't matter how many close Zamasu makes.

If they are weaker, then whatever Android they are fighting would still mop the floor with them.

So Zamasu can't win no matter how many of them there are because this hypothetical Android is both stronger and doesn't run out of energy, and said Android can't win because Zamasu is literally immortal.

Sounds like a stalemate to me.

Edit: Of course, as [up] states, Zamasu and Black are far more powerful than either Android...or at least 18. But this is all hypothetical.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Oct 25th 2018 at 10:14:28 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88912: Oct 25th 2018 at 9:17:17 PM

Shin calls Fused Zamasu the greatest divine power he's ever felt which should in theory put him above Beerus. However we cannot ignore the possibility that Shin doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Edited by Moth13 on Oct 25th 2018 at 12:17:29 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88913: Oct 25th 2018 at 9:58:37 PM

If the rumors are true and Gogeta is the one to beat Broly, then it's possible that Broly will actually be weaker than Fused Zamasu, since Metamoran fusion is weaker than Potara fusion and Vegetto couldn't finish off Fused Zamasu despite having a slight edge.

I also seriously doubt that Blue Evolved and Blue Kaioken won't be making appearances in the film since the only real argument against them was that they weren't in the manga, which they both are now. The trailers probably just haven't shown them because the movie is saving them for the really hype moments.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 25th 2018 at 9:59:02 AM

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88914: Oct 25th 2018 at 10:06:08 PM

Neither SSBE nor SSBKK were in the manga. Vegeta does gain some sort of power-up but it looks absolutely nothing like SSBE. Goku does something like Kaio-Ken but apparently not since Tenshinhan doesn't instantly recognize it by the red aura, and Jiren explicitly likens it to Kale's power-stressed Super Saiyan form. If anything that scene is a blatant Take That! to the anime and the whole idea of SSBKK.

Base Vegetto sliced Zamasu in half like butter in the manga. As it should be, since Toriyama himself stated that two SSBs could beat him.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Oct 25th 2018 at 10:10:29 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88915: Oct 25th 2018 at 10:10:39 PM

Vegeta's thing is exactly Blue Evolved, it looks exactly the same (as much as it can in a greytone manga). Krillin also literally called Goku's thing the Kaioken.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88916: Oct 25th 2018 at 10:20:46 PM

Vegeta's thing is exactly Blue Evolved, it looks exactly the same (as much as it can in a greytone manga).
They look literally nothing alike. Manga "SSBE" is drawn identically to SSB bar a slightly different aura. No increased muscle, no different hair, no sparkles, no kawaii eyes.
Krillin also literally called Goku's thing the Kaioken.
Nope, he just questions if a Kaio-Ken would work. Tenshinhan calls it "the same principle", not the same technique, and Jiren clarifies what it is the panel after.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Oct 25th 2018 at 10:46:21 AM

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88917: Oct 25th 2018 at 10:21:21 PM

As it should be, since Toriyama himself stated that two SSBs could beat him.

He said it was the original plan, but as poor Dr. Gero can attest, things don't always end up like initially conceived.

Edited by Moth13 on Oct 25th 2018 at 1:21:50 PM

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88918: Oct 25th 2018 at 10:22:52 PM

It's true in the final draft of the manga, at least. Bar immortality shenanigans. Toei changed things because that's what they've always done.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Oct 25th 2018 at 10:25:56 AM

tms_forever1 Since: Apr, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#88919: Oct 25th 2018 at 10:30:27 PM

[up][up][up] Ok so I haven’t watched any of the TOP yet (I’m in the middle of the filler eps before it right now) but does Vegeta actually get a form with Kawaii eyes?

Because that sounds stupidly amazing and I want to see it. :p

Edit: I just looked it up and omg that’s actually hilarious! I love it.

Edited by tms_forever1 on Oct 25th 2018 at 1:32:26 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88920: Oct 25th 2018 at 10:38:45 PM

It's not really kawaii eyes so much as it is just visible pupils. SSG and SS3 do the same thing. The sparkles in the aura are a bit kawaii, though.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 25th 2018 at 10:40:46 AM

tms_forever1 Since: Apr, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#88922: Oct 25th 2018 at 10:50:51 PM

[up][up] yeah I agree it’s not 100% kawaii but I will still say I did laugh a bit when I zoomed in on the eyes on the pic I looked at, the sparkles in the aura you mentioned helped lol.

[up] I never knew I needed that pic in my life till now but that’s art right there. :p

Now I want to start watching the TOP lol.

Edited by tms_forever1 on Oct 25th 2018 at 1:51:37 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88923: Oct 25th 2018 at 10:53:06 PM

[up][up]That's an in-between frame where his eyes are drawn larger than usual. They're also really not that big when compared to anime eyes in shows actually marketed for their cuteness, like magical girl shows.

I really like the look of SSBE. The sparkles are a nice way of adding elements to the aura that aren't electric sparks for once, the darker blue hair and higher contrast looks good, too.

As far as aesthetics go, I would actually rate SSBE above SSB, though my favorite Super Saiyan form, aesthetically, would be SSB KK. The double aura and contrast of red and blue just looks beautiful.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 25th 2018 at 10:53:50 AM

tms_forever1 Since: Apr, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#88924: Oct 25th 2018 at 10:55:48 PM

[up] I can definetly agree on that, SSBKK design is absolutely awesome and it looks amazing! ^ ^

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88925: Oct 25th 2018 at 11:01:40 PM

I would actually rate SSB KKx10 (as it appeared in the U6 arc) lower than SSB KK, though. I feel the Super Saiyan Blue hair retaining its original color is a big part of why I like the design, since it cuts through the red Kaioken aura and merges with the SSB aura to complete the band of blue around Goku's body. I was very happy when the Tournament of Power design for SSB KK kept Goku's hair the same color even at x20.


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