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Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#88676: Oct 21st 2018 at 4:22:50 PM

Time Rings can only be used by those wearing the Potara of a Kaioshin, going by the manga (and that's exaclty where Zamasu learns about fusion). Zamasu just stole them from Gowasu's warm corpse.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88677: Oct 21st 2018 at 4:39:03 PM

But, shouldn't Elder Kai have unfused what with not being Shin?

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#88678: Oct 21st 2018 at 4:44:39 PM

Celestial Bureaucracy is too complicated for mortal minds

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88679: Oct 21st 2018 at 4:45:25 PM

I think that if you are officially a Kaioshin (either via being born from one of those Shin-jin fruits, or being promoted like Zamasu would have been), the fusion is still permanent.

Manga Zamasu may had the time ring and the earrings, but he was never considered a true Kaioshin (he was born a Kai) due to ...Klingon Promotion not being a viable way to do so.

In the anime, he was considered a Kaioshin, but because the Immortal Zamasu fused with the Mortal Black, it created an imbalance that lead to goo face.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88680: Oct 21st 2018 at 5:10:15 PM

"causes extreme damage to the enemy"

okay, so, i want a jaco ova, and an ova of three small children committing murder

i would say "and looking their goddamned age" but i saw the broly promos and that ain't happening.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 21st 2018 at 8:19:47 AM

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#88681: Oct 21st 2018 at 5:18:24 PM

An army of Zamasus would be better defined as an infestation.

And one is already obnoxious. Two got an entire timeline gone to shit.

Uni cat
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88682: Oct 21st 2018 at 5:19:08 PM

I almost think it would be a senate of Zamasus.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#88683: Oct 21st 2018 at 5:26:28 PM

@unnoun Old Kaioshin was a proper Kaioshin though, universe 7 used to have 5 of them (an issue with Toriyama's current treatment that no version has been able to address).

Like Erior said, Fused Zamasu wasn't a proper Kaioshin, he just stole a Kaioshin's potara which let him use the time ring.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88684: Oct 21st 2018 at 5:35:12 PM

@unnoun Old Kaioshin was a proper Kaioshin though, universe 7 used to have 5 of them (an issue with Toriyama's current treatment that no version has been able to address).

I'd assume that after he was sealed in the sword, a bunch of other Kais (or maybe Supreme Kais) gathered to fill the gap, with Maybe Daikaioshin being the most senior because he'd previously been an attendant, with the other three all being considered attendants to him. Hence why when he and the rest died, the job officially fell to Shin.

That's gonna be my theory since Toriyama seems totally uninterested in fixing the problem he created by retconning how many Supreme Kai each universe needs. True, there was never any indication that they had to be more than one, but considering that there originally being five is an important part of Shin and Buu's backstory, he's going to need to address it at some point.

One Strip! One Strip!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#88685: Oct 21st 2018 at 6:46:24 PM

Universe 7 had a Kaioshin sealed inside the Z-sword that never stopped being a Kaioshin, and, at least from when we next pick up the narrative, 5 appointed Kaioshin.

I guess Beerus freaked out about dying if the Kaioshin died (I mean, he was the guy who sealed Old Kaioshin, after all), so they probably went with a policy of "promotion first, formation latter", and 4 extra Kaioshin were around just in case.

(And, weren't golden fruit Shinjin just the ones that COULD hope to become Kaioshin? Standard ones look like King Kai, while Zamasu, who was a Kaio before becoming a Kaioshin apprentice, looked like Shin and company. That'd mean King Kai couldn't become a Kaioshin apprentice, but Shin could have worked as a Kaio before becoming a Kaioshin.)

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88686: Oct 21st 2018 at 7:08:48 PM

So it occurs to me that if Tien had stepped in before Cell managed to absorb Android 17 (though he did at least yell out a warning I believe even if it was too late), he could have probably prevented the absorption.

I mean, 16 was still as strong as Cell, so maybe with Tien pinning Imperfect Cell down with Shin Kikoho and 16 adding in one of his bigger attacks since Cell could no longer dodge or even block, they could have killed him.

Well, I guess that three eyed cowboy really is overrated!

One Strip! One Strip!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88687: Oct 21st 2018 at 8:35:05 PM

As for Jiren, it would make sense, though I got the impression they killed every mortal in every universe in that timeline before they came to Trunks'.

A lot of people assume that, but Zamasu never said they killed every mortal, leaving Earth for last, he just said they killed many mortals throughout the cosmos. I guess they never ran into Jiren.

And the reason given for why Goku Black doesn't just smoke every human instantly is that Zamasu considers Humans the worst mortals of them all, for their crime of creating time machines and using it make new timelines. So he wants to take his time and make the humans suffer before they die.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88688: Oct 21st 2018 at 8:38:11 PM

Y'know what I'd be interested to see in the development of the Beerus and Goku dynamic?

If seeing the Full Ultra Instinct prompted Beerus to start taking his training with Whis more seriously and stop napping and eating as much.

...I mean, slightly more seriously. Slightly less naps and eating, not no naps and no eating.

Come to think of it, we've never actually seen Beerus train with Whis, have we? Yeah, Whis slaps Beerus's shit or restrains him when he's out of hand, but. Thats not quite training. No actual teaching involved.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88689: Oct 21st 2018 at 8:43:51 PM

The problem with Ultra Instinct Beerus is that Beerus doesn't have any fur to turn white.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88690: Oct 21st 2018 at 8:46:02 PM

I mean, it isnt necessarily just a transformation. He supposedly does partial ultra instinct as a technique in the manga, he just. Slips up. Because he hasn't mastered it.

...Unless it is a transformation, and the reason all the angels have white hair is they're ultra instinct all the time.

Also, couldn't Beerus's eyes turn silver?

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88691: Oct 21st 2018 at 8:48:58 PM

Oh yeah the eyes and aura could sell Ultra Instinct Beerus very well, I was just disappointed because I imagined a fully white Beerus and then realized it could never be.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88692: Oct 21st 2018 at 8:53:34 PM

The Ultra Instinct technique and Goku Blanco don't appear to be the same thing, otherwise Beerus would've been stronger when he tried the former, and he wasn't.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88693: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:00:57 PM

I think it is both a technique and a transformation that imbues the user with the technique. The angels may or may not always be in the transformation, it could just be their natural state. I think Beerus is learning the technique, and if he gets the transformation, it would be a very small increase over his current God of Destruction power.

That reminds me, in a future Xenoverse game, I want Beerus to have a transformation that gives him a small power-up and a weakened version of the Ultra Instinct dodging ability, and I want Whis and Vados to always have the Ultra Instinct dodging ability by default.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88694: Oct 22nd 2018 at 5:24:10 AM

So, wait, what happens if a Kaioshin put on a Potara with their God of Destruction?

Or, worse, with a different universe's God of Destruction?

EDIT: Also, can Jiren and Toppo breath in space? The Tournament of Power arena seems to have an atmosphere.

If Zamasu just. Blew up a bunch of planets before Earth. That could be neat.

He specifically stops to play with Earth because he hates it.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 22nd 2018 at 9:18:29 AM

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88695: Oct 22nd 2018 at 10:13:09 AM

Jiren can survive in space. In the manga he doesn't bother using a spaceship because it's faster for him to just personally fly wherever he is needed in his universe.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88696: Oct 22nd 2018 at 11:14:39 AM

Maybe he can just hold his breath that long.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#88697: Oct 22nd 2018 at 11:27:14 AM

Ultra Instinct is a technique, but it seems to manifest as transformation when a Saiyan uses it.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88698: Oct 22nd 2018 at 12:18:12 PM

New All Systems Goku They're not a fan of Dabura I see. "He looks like they would kick him out of Cuphead"

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88699: Oct 22nd 2018 at 12:44:58 PM

Aren't demons basically Kais that were born evil from the tree fruit and kicked out of the realm of kais to the demon realm or. Somethings

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88700: Oct 22nd 2018 at 3:13:08 PM

No. The demons from the Demon Realm are their own race (and distinct from the various types of demons in the regular realm like Piccolo and Garlic) who sometimes happen to take in rogue Shinjin born evil/rebellious.

Also they have their own "Kais" (it equivalent to them) in the form of the Makaioshins. They're only mentioned in one of Toriyama's interviews and the occasional guidebook tidbit. We know literally nothing about them other than that they're weaker than Dabra and the current Kaioshin.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Oct 22nd 2018 at 3:14:55 AM


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