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Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#88451: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:00:31 PM

[up]That he could find. Bergamo said there were beings stronger then him in U9.

Combined with the fact that Rou was stated be worried cause he did not know were to find strong fighters in his universe.

Edited by Envyus on Oct 18th 2018 at 9:02:47 AM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#88452: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:55:53 PM

[up][up][up][up] Padding isn't a very good reason.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#88453: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:59:37 PM

But a joke can still be made about it. Like yeah it was added as padding to the anime, but that doesn't invalidate a joke being made about how long the transformations were. Especially since it is basically Toei poking fun at themselves.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#88454: Oct 18th 2018 at 9:05:35 PM

Yeah but i wouldn't take it seriously for characterizations.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88455: Oct 18th 2018 at 9:12:21 PM

It is rare but so are the examples of characters taking a long time to transform in the first place. Freeza's probably the most straight example of the meme, but I don't like how far it gets exaggerated.

This is true. Most transformations happen super fast (with maybe Kamen Rider and Super Sentai being the most notable exceptions, and that's mostly the build-up to the actual change).

Only Diaboromon / Diablomon is fast enough to catch you in mid change.

Hell, I'd argue that they deserved to get blown up for letting it take place in real time. That's asking for an ass whupping.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#88456: Oct 18th 2018 at 9:14:01 PM

Their lucky Goku got dumber cause he totally would have taken advantage of that opening back then.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88457: Oct 18th 2018 at 9:18:23 PM

As poor Recoome and Jeice will attest.tongue

One Strip! One Strip!
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#88458: Oct 18th 2018 at 9:22:50 PM

Didn't he hit Zamasu mid-monologue once?

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88459: Oct 18th 2018 at 10:19:20 PM

Yeah just because nobody likes the super long anime transformations doesn't mean people are going to ignore that they happened, especially when making fun of them is much more fun.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88460: Oct 18th 2018 at 10:52:58 PM

There is literally one time in the manga where someone not attacking during a transformation comes off as weird: Gohan standing still while Buu absorbs Gotenks and turns into Buutenks. And even that can be handwaved by shock. As for the other instances of transformations...

All SS transformations: there is no delay in the manga, they just happen in an instant.

Young Piccolo: Chaozu and Ten try to stop it, so Piccolo just kills the former.

Oozaru Vegeta: Goku had no energy left. He could barely move and didn't stand a chance even if Vegeta didn't transform.

Monster Zarbon: transformation is really quick both times, only takes a panel.

Second form Freeza: ditto. Also, Vegeta specifically asked him to transform because he thought Freeza only did so as a means of conserving energy. Thus letting him go to full power would actually be advantageous.

Third form Freeza: again, too quick.

Fourth form Freeza: no one could stop him even if they wanted to, he was essentially invincible and was only transforming to show off. Which is good because this is the first transformation that explicitly takes a noticeable amount of time in universe.

Buff Freeza: Goku acknowledges that he could just wipe out base Freeza immediately (Trunks later demonstrates this), but wants to let him go to 100% to show him that Goku would still kick his ass. Which he does. It's not like it's hard to tell how strong he'll end up given how many times Freeza said he was at 50%.

Second form Cell: seems to happen before anyone has processed it.

Perfect Cell: Trunks actually tries to attack him, it just doesn't do anything because even mid-transformation Cell is much stronger than him (a similar thing happens with Vegeta in the first Broly movie incidentally).

Buff Cell: Gohan lets him do it for much the same reasons as Goku let Freeza transform.

Super Buu: no one is strong enough to butt in on Buu vs Buu in the first place.

Gotenks: Buu didn't even know what fusion was and wanted to have a fun fight.

Gotenks 2: Buu let him be formed and then distracted him as part of a plan to absorb him and overcome Gohan.

Buuhan: Goku isn't powerful enough to stop Buuccolo, even if he tried. Gohan was his only hope.

Vegetto: Buu actually does try to stop them, he's just too late.

Kid Buu: Goku and Vegeta have no motivation to stop Buu's transformation, it was making him weaker.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#88461: Oct 18th 2018 at 10:56:41 PM

I get making fun of the extended transformations as long as people understand that only happened in the anime for padding reasons.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88462: Oct 18th 2018 at 11:27:58 PM

No one ever suggested otherwise.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88463: Oct 18th 2018 at 11:41:44 PM

This becomes really noticeable when transformations galore are featured in the anime movies yet those generally take a few seconds at the most.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#88464: Oct 19th 2018 at 12:37:59 AM

[up][up]People do...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88465: Oct 19th 2018 at 2:00:46 AM

No, he had a lot of fun fighting Piccolo. Piccolo was on par with/slightly stronger than him.

Didn't he say he would still win because of his unlimited energy?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#88466: Oct 19th 2018 at 2:04:21 AM

Doesn't mean Piccolo couldn't still kill him.

17 just has to a bit careful not to forget that he is fighting an opponent of worthy strength.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#88467: Oct 19th 2018 at 2:16:26 AM

@Kamiccolo one minor note on that list - I'm pretty sure 2nd form Cell uses 17's barrier to stop Trunks' attack, and that's where the Budokai games got his usage of it from.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88468: Oct 19th 2018 at 2:21:21 AM

It's not like it's hard to tell how strong he'll end up given how many times Freeza said he was at 50%.

I was gonna say that maybe Freeza is as bad at percentages as he is at minutes, but given the entire Tournament of Power was apparently 48 minutes, maybe time in Dragon Ball is just that fucked.

Like, a fair amount of Dragon Ball is standing around and talking. I don't think power level can make you talk faster. Or, at least, I don't want to believe that.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 19th 2018 at 5:26:24 AM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#88469: Oct 19th 2018 at 2:33:12 AM

It's just anime padding at work.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88470: Oct 19th 2018 at 2:41:06 AM

I could swear there's still bits of the manga where we cut to people commenting on the fight, or the characters bantering verbally and, if you actually time out how long the dialogue takes, it's too fucking long.

Thought bubbles being instantaneous I buy, speech bubbles no.

Otherwise you get the characters motormouthing through the dialogue until they're out of breath and it's not dramatic just silly and pathetic and lame.

Speed racer comes to mind.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 19th 2018 at 5:51:37 AM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#88471: Oct 19th 2018 at 3:35:58 AM

Yeah but they don't have 19 episodes worth of speech bubbles.

It's also worth noting that the time between Freeza setting off the detonation and the actual detonation of Namek is longer than 5 minutes, he admits that his initial estimation is off.

I've seen people do estimates of how long the dialogue would take, it's definitely more than 5 minutes but hard to estimate. Cutaways are even harder to estimate since they should be happening at the same time as other events we see.

Whereas, the manga version of the TOP is nearing its end at 7.5 chapters long. That ones much more reasonably paced.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88472: Oct 19th 2018 at 7:15:06 AM

Fuck it, I started rambling and having thoughts in the fanfic thread relevant to the main series. Gonna copy/paste here, want some input or. I dunno, people to see it.

...So the new Broly movie might explain it, but I cant tell how old Bardock, Vegeta Sr., Gine, or Paragus are supposed to be?

In the original Broly movie, Paragus mentioned Bardock and seemed to know (of) him, and according to the Supplemental Daizenshu Paragus would have been Bardock's superior? So. I dunno, maybe Paragus was older?

There's multiple references to Vegeta Sr. being the instigator of the war on the Tuffles, but there's no clear timeline on when that was. Or how old he was. Or even how old he was when he had our Vegeta.

...Actually, wait, I'm wrong. According to the wiki, the Tuffle war was Age 720-730. Nappa was born in Age 703-712. Freeza annexed the Saiyans in Age 731, our Vegeta is born Age 732, and Goku is born in Age 736.

That's. Did they make that up? Where the fuck did they get that shit?

Also when the fuck was Raditz born.

...I like to think Nappa is bald because he's so old he's started losing his hair. It contradicts the "Saiyan hair never changes from the day they're born" thing but, I still really like it.

Nappa having to play babysitter to Raditz and Vegeta, the latter of whom was stronger than him even as a kid is a great thing to think about. Especially since, in his own way, Nappa is almost the most "moral" of the Saiyans in the Saiyan Saga. With his sense of camaraderie and loyalty. And Raditz resorts to a lot of tricks of the sort that Nappa seems to look down on. And Vegeta's a teamkilling complete and utter bastard.

Nappa being stressed the hell out by these nasty, disloyal and dishonorable little brats. Is honestly a little great.

Of course, Saiyan aging being what it is, it's weird if he's only 59 at the oldest. It's thought that the maximum potential lifespan of a human body is about ~125 ish. And I want Saiyans to have the same actual lifespan as a human, they just mature and stay in their prime differently.

Goku doesnt start to look his age until he's, what, 17 or 18? And in the end of Z, Vegeta is...

Okay, so, Goku meets Uub in Age 784, so chronologically Vegeta is 52. And he spent two years in the time chamber in Z, and three in Super, making him 57. Older than Nappa's youngest possible age, and only two years below the oldest.

I dont think I like this timeline. Mucking up the headcanons I enjoy.

In Dragon Ball Online, Age 801 is when Goku and Vegeta have their last fight, specifically because age is catching up, when Goku would be chronologically 65? But he spent 8 years dead that dont count physiologically, but also 1 plus 3 years in the time chamber, so. 61?

That's. Hmm.

Vegeta would be. 73? And he still wants to fight Kakarot to the death? When Kakarot is worried about being too old, to fight?

Did Bulma put her sweet prince on a drug cocktail of arthritis meds or something?

Also, like. Being closer to higher gravity decreases the rate time passes for you. Gravity is a force that bends space-time. So Vegeta might be younger in the sense of having experienced less time.

...Or older by experiencing more time- y'know what, I'm not a physicist, but I know gravity does weird shit to time, and Vegeta uses that Gravity chamber a bunch.

I think it's that the closer you are to higher gravity the less time passes for you in the same "absolute" time.

If Vegeta is in the gravity room for exactly an hour, he can power it down and step outside and for everyone else it's been. I dunno, more than an hour. Not a physicist, dont know the exact equations.

Although maybe Bulma, inventor of the time machine, could make some sorta time dilator or counter dilator? Time contractor? Time compressor?

I'm probably thinking way more about the physics than anyone else ever has.

Seriously, though, what are the space-time implications of Dragon Ball's gravity training?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88473: Oct 19th 2018 at 8:12:57 AM

@Kamiccolo one minor note on that list - I'm pretty sure 2nd form Cell uses 17's barrier to stop Trunks' attack, and that's where the Budokai games got his usage of it from.

Huh. I never realized that. It does make sense.

So the Barrier was in the manga too I take it.

One Strip! One Strip!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#88474: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:17:13 AM

Perfect Cell had that barrier move in the anime at least, used to stop Goku's ki barrage at the tail end of their fight.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#88475: Oct 19th 2018 at 12:52:09 PM

Found some more Heroes info Looks like Universe Mission 5 will have 3 campaign card sets:

Saiyan Blood Set:

  • SSB Prison Planet Goku
  • SSB Prison Planet Vegeta
  • SS Prison Planet Trunks
  • Ultimate Gohan
  • SS Gotenks
  • Super Vegetto
  • SS Cumber
  • SS3 Xeno Bardock

Scouter Set:

  • SSB Prison Planet Goku
  • SSB Prison Planet Vegeta
  • SSB Prison Planet Trunks
  • Xeno Goten
  • Xeno Gohan

Movie Set:

  • King Gourmet
  • Lucifer
  • Movie 3 Tao Pai-Pai
  • Garlic Jr.
  • Dr. Wheelo
  • Turles
  • Lord Slug
  • Final Form Cooler
  • Meta-Cooler (Base, Core)
  • Super 13
  • Broly
  • Bojack
  • LSS Broly
  • Bio-Broly (Base, Giant)
  • Super Janemba
  • Tapion (Base, Hirudegarn Awakens)
  • Movie 17 Eighter
  • Beerus
  • Golden Frieza
  • BR Broly

Interestingly enough, this is the first time Eighter, Lucifer and King Gourmet have been playable in Heroes.

Edited by Rinsankajugin on Oct 19th 2018 at 2:52:30 PM


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