TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#88427: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:45:43 PM

How many bad jokes then?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88428: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:47:38 PM

I mean, off the top of my head there's two when he mispronounces Marron's name and says he's 17, and later he snarks about Goku and Freeza making up.

...Yeah those are only two scenes, I don't have the whole thing memorized shut up.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88429: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:49:48 PM

A big thing about old 17 is that he used to have that "I am the strongest lifeform" arrogance going on, so seeing him come back much more chill is a nice change.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#88430: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:49:48 PM

I've always liked 17 and 18, so seeing at least one of them get some spotlight was nice.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#88431: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:51:02 PM

[up][up]17 was always chill though. That he thought that he was the strongest for a time doesn't change that. Honestly, I don't even think you can call that a big thing since it was only even brought up once.

Edited by LSBK on Oct 18th 2018 at 7:52:01 AM

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88432: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:57:05 PM

Yeah but now he's more chill. Less of that cocky immaturity, more comfortable with his place in the world. (and he brought it up more than once before)

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#88433: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:59:38 PM

When? The only thing I can think of is 16 saying that one of the two in Cell and Piccolo fight is equal to him, and rejecting that notion.

And going "Okay, he was chill.... but now he's more chill" as "expanded" characterization is....

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#88434: Oct 18th 2018 at 6:03:34 PM

But guys, now he is a Park Ranger!

I think people are happy that 17 came back because he was very underutilized. Like most of the cast really. That and the possibility of him becoming another regular supporting character. That's always fine.

Now, will we see his family at some point? wild mass guessOr is that a lie he invented and he just went insane believing himself to be 16 instead?wild mass guess

Uni cat
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88435: Oct 18th 2018 at 6:08:00 PM

When? The only thing I can think of is 16 saying that one of the two in Cell and Piccolo fight is equal to him, and rejecting that notion.

And going "Okay, he was chill.... but now he's more chill" as "expanded" characterization is....

There was also when he faced off against Imperfect Cell and did the Vegeta finger pointing(tm) right before he got his ass kicked, and him declaring that he was stronger than 16 when activating him.

Anyway, I don't really want to do a deep dive analysis on the different types of chill that exist in the world, suffice to say that his character feels different and more interesting to me.

Edited by Moth13 on Oct 18th 2018 at 9:08:23 AM

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#88436: Oct 18th 2018 at 6:09:09 PM

Plot Twist: Android 17 is part of the Freeza Race. That's why he is so chill.

Uni cat
Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88437: Oct 18th 2018 at 6:12:15 PM

I mean, I liked his shitty deadpan sense of humor, and the way he's more serious and not really prone to a lot of the genre quirks like letting people power up.
Which contradicts what little pre-established character he had. 17 loved to fight and show off and always dismissed the pragmatic option. I mean, I guess you can say he changed a lot in those 13+ years... but that just makes him a blank slate that looks like a pre-established character.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88438: Oct 18th 2018 at 6:17:13 PM

I mean, I don't get the sense that it was strict pragmatism though.

17 went with what was most fun. Stealing a car or van or going on a joyride through the woods.

Even when fighting was a thing 17 liked, it wasn't the only or best thing to him. Otherwise he could have just flown to Goku's house to get to fighting faster.

He interrupted the power up because it was boring and there were other fun things he could be doing.

Like beating the fuck out of poachers.

Or annoying his sister.

Or his wife.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 18th 2018 at 9:18:11 AM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#88439: Oct 18th 2018 at 6:21:17 PM

That's Kamiccolo's point. 17 was the opposite of pragmatic.

But honestly the Maiden scene was a dumb anime-only joke and I wouldn't read into it much. We've already had other characters try to interrupt transformations/power-ups, including Goku himself.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88440: Oct 18th 2018 at 6:26:54 PM

[up][up]Do you mean annoying his wife or doing his wife?

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88441: Oct 18th 2018 at 6:27:24 PM

I mean. I guess I don't view "not being pragmatic" as an inviolable character trait?

I never saw 17 as someone against pragmatism for the sake of being against pragmatism; as if he was offended by the very concept.

I saw him as, fundamentally, a hedonist. He did what he wanted, when he wanted, because he wanted it, to have a good time.

The magical girls powering up was boring to him. Piccolo powering up back in the Androids Saga wasn't.

I mean, I imagine part of it is just that, back in the Androids Saga he thought he was the strongest being, and now he knows he's not. Before he could show off and be the strongest ever, now he has other priorities.

Like. I think part of 17's character is that he's kind of a bully? He likes fighting when he's stronger than the one he's fighting. It's why he was the way he was in the Android Saga, and why he likes beating up poachers.

In fairness. The poachers do deserve it. But still.

He's not in it for the sake of fighting, he's in it for the sense of superiority and confidence of overpowering someone.

Which isnt to say he cant fight a stronger person, he just doesnt enjoy it as much.

[up] Yes.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 18th 2018 at 9:41:17 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88442: Oct 18th 2018 at 6:56:26 PM

But honestly the Maiden scene was a dumb anime-only joke and I wouldn't read into it much. We've already had other characters try to interrupt transformations/power-ups, including Goku himself.

See, I'll agree that it was dumb, but I still kinda liked it because attacking during the transformation is so damned rare.

And while Goku getting in his face over it is dumb, I did find it funny how everyone else (Toppo included) was pissed about it.

It's like hitting hitting a Wrestler in the middle of their catch phrase: it's just dirty pool.

One Strip! One Strip!
Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88443: Oct 18th 2018 at 7:19:39 PM

Like. I think part of 17's character is that he's kind of a bully? He likes fighting when he's stronger than the one he's fighting. It's why he was the way he was in the Android Saga, and why he likes beating up poachers.

In fairness. The poachers do deserve it. But still.

He's not in it for the sake of fighting, he's in it for the sense of superiority and confidence of overpowering someone.

No, he had a lot of fun fighting Piccolo. Piccolo was on par with/slightly stronger than him. And he wanted to find Goku because he heard he was strong.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Oct 18th 2018 at 7:20:21 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#88444: Oct 18th 2018 at 7:22:09 PM

I would definitely say the TOP fleshed out 17. You only really have to look at his speech on being human when he "sacrifices" himself. Yea, its not really a lot, but its more characterization than he's had in years, so it counts.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88445: Oct 18th 2018 at 7:31:39 PM

I loved 17 and 18's whole shared character arc in the Tournament of Power. They had a whole thing about how they feel love for their loved ones but they also feel disconnected from normal humans and they have a hard time being open and honest with anyone besides each other. Their big moments in the tournament are linked to feeling human and showing their emotions and drawing from them for strength.

As someone with Asperger's, I related to that struggle, and I loved how well it was portrayed.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#88446: Oct 18th 2018 at 7:37:11 PM

It's kinda funny when you consider that in the past 18 was a lot more serious and stoic than her brother. In Super it's the inverse, 18 is a lot more emotional than 17.

Of course, she had the advantage of being around the supporting cast so we did see how she warmed up to her friends. It must be strange for her considering she was originally programmed to kill Goku only to eventually become like an honorary sister-in-law to Goku

Edited by fasoman1996 on Oct 18th 2018 at 11:37:27 AM

Uni cat
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#88447: Oct 18th 2018 at 7:37:52 PM

[up]x5 It is rare but so are the examples of characters taking a long time to transform in the first place. Freeza's probably the most straight example of the meme, but I don't like how far it gets exaggerated.

Edited by Saiga on Oct 19th 2018 at 12:38:30 AM

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88448: Oct 18th 2018 at 7:47:18 PM

[up]I know you only like to count the manga, but believe me, the joke about people taking forever to transform exists for a very good reason. Plus Ribrianne and co are based on magical girl tropes, and the repeated transformations in those shows have spawned their own set of jokes.

Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#88449: Oct 18th 2018 at 7:56:32 PM

@Saiga Nothing states Bergamo is still the strongest warrior in U9. Strongest on their Team probably, but their is a good chance there are stronger beings in U9.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88450: Oct 18th 2018 at 7:58:10 PM

I could have sworn the Universe 9 Supreme Kai says that they're the best warriors in their universe at the Zeno Expo.


Total posts: 130,800
Top