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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88401: Oct 18th 2018 at 6:27:48 AM

It helped that for once Vegeta knew what he was dealing with and knew to be terrified.

Kinda like Freeza really.

One Strip! One Strip!
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#88402: Oct 18th 2018 at 6:36:38 AM

[up] Until he wasn't and got cocky.

Then he died. Like a bitch

Uni cat
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#88403: Oct 18th 2018 at 12:04:41 PM

Heroes' design for Nu!Broly

Never been much of an animation buff, but there's a clear difference of quality here.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88404: Oct 18th 2018 at 2:45:02 PM

So some leaks for the next manga chapter came out.

We've passed into the "MUI Goku is beaten and gone but Jiren is also weakened down to a level where base saiyans can affect him" stretch of the fight. Next chapter will probably conclude things. From the plot points that match up and don't, it seems that Jiren screaming and trying to murder the audience, Goku saying "I'll never forgive those who'd hurt my friends!", MUI Goku being seconds away from beating Jiren, and Jiren pathetically asking to be knocked out were all exclusive to Toei. Typical.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Oct 18th 2018 at 4:20:49 AM

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#88405: Oct 18th 2018 at 3:54:56 PM

That was what I expected.

Also, I'd say the power scaling got out of hand when the Earthlings were revealed to be 18 times weaker than Vegeta.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#88406: Oct 18th 2018 at 4:05:36 PM

Eh, I don't think that's an issue at all (also it's more like 10-12x excluding Chaozu who is shit). It could have been a bit tighter without changing much but there's not much point in that.

But Freeza is truly absurd. Literally 1,000 times stronger than his second in command.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#88407: Oct 18th 2018 at 4:10:20 PM

And that's just his first form.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#88408: Oct 18th 2018 at 4:12:20 PM

No it isn't. That was when he was at full power.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#88409: Oct 18th 2018 at 4:16:25 PM

Ah.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88410: Oct 18th 2018 at 4:19:36 PM

...I almost wanna be fair to Toei on Jiren, because I doubt they had much to work with.

Even that lame cliche anime villain personality Toei gave him is at least a personality. Does Jiren actually do anything in the new manga chapter that characterizes him even slightly?

Because him wanting to be knocked out and lose in the face of not being the strongest almost barely makes a kind of sense with his thing about how only strength matters.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#88411: Oct 18th 2018 at 4:21:45 PM

I doubt that they thought that much about it, considering some moments don't even match up to his anime characterization (what little he has). They just made him look bad because he opposed Goku.

Maybe Jiren still does the Freak Out and attempted murder out of order (i.e. in the next chapter), but it would be really weird for him to even be capable of killing Gohan and co at this point considering both he and Goku are weakened to below-base-Saiyan level.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Oct 18th 2018 at 4:23:34 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88412: Oct 18th 2018 at 4:28:09 PM

I mean, it's a fair question whether an inconsistent and minimal characterization is better or worse than a complete lack of characterization.

And honestly, Freeza and 17 being in the tournament sorta throws this into sharp contrast. Although 17 didn't exactly have an excess of characterization in his original arc. He does now, though.

...Part of me sorta doesn't want Freeza to die again too soon just because, mostly as a result of the Tournament of Power, I sorta realized I'd honestly missed the son of a bitch without realizing it. He's just so easy to hate while still being sorta fun with his mannerisms.

Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#88413: Oct 18th 2018 at 4:31:37 PM

@Kamiccolo

Actually Bergamo was explicitly not the strongest fighter in U9. One of his bragging points during the tournament was that he and his brothers knew how to work together well to bring down much stronger opponents that they constantly had to face down in U9.

Edited by Envyus on Oct 18th 2018 at 5:32:24 AM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#88414: Oct 18th 2018 at 4:32:50 PM

He's explicitly the strongest by the time of the TOP. So he either became stronger than those foes are beating them, or they're dead.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#88415: Oct 18th 2018 at 4:36:01 PM

You have to wonder how much of a shithole is U9 supposed to be considering their rank.

Uni cat
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88416: Oct 18th 2018 at 4:49:18 PM

And honestly, Freeza and 17 being in the tournament sorta throws this into sharp contrast. Although 17 didn't exactly have an excess of characterization in his original arc. He does now, though.

Yeah 17 went from "Uh, he exists." to one of my favorite characters because of the Tournament.

[up]Didn't look great from those brief glimpses we got.

Edited by Moth13 on Oct 18th 2018 at 7:49:55 AM

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#88417: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:10:00 PM

I will never forget how the news of the TOP caused a city/planet/whatever to riot and get erased from existence. But it was just a prank, bro.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#88418: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:14:00 PM

Late, but on the subject of Kai strength, the official website says that the strongest Kai? The goofy bearded guy from Universe 2! It even specifically singles him out as being stronger than the U7 South Supreme Kai who was at least comparable to Buu.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88419: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:20:46 PM

Well, we already know that U7 is a massive shit-hole so that's not a shock.

Even though it has warriors stronger than the strongest of the worst universes.

Hell, Jiren and Ultra Instinct Goku might be stronger than the gods of the non shitty universes.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88420: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:31:59 PM

I mean, I'm not sure that the non shitty universes are rated on their strength per se.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#88421: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:33:58 PM

And honestly, Freeza and 17 being in the tournament sorta throws this into sharp contrast. Although 17 didn't exactly have an excess of characterization in his original arc. He does now, though.

I wouldn't say that 17 has received a lot more characterization from the TOP.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#88422: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:36:02 PM

Yeah, 17 doing a lot and his personality and characterization being expanded aren't the same thing.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#88423: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:38:56 PM

I mean, I liked his shitty deadpan sense of humor, and the way he's more serious and not really prone to a lot of the genre quirks like letting people power up.

Like, I'm not saying it's the deepest or most unique personality.

..."How old are you uncle" "I'm 17" is maybe one of my favorite exchanges.

Like. It's just such a bad joke. It's fantastic.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 18th 2018 at 8:42:23 AM

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#88424: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:41:57 PM

I wouldn't say that 17 has received a lot more characterization from the TOP.

I would.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#88425: Oct 18th 2018 at 5:44:14 PM

Honestly he feels the same as he's always been just somewhat more chill I guess.

It doesn't feel like they actually added anything new to his character except for a love of animals.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 18th 2018 at 5:44:36 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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