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Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#87901: Oct 7th 2018 at 11:04:20 PM

It's made worse that nothing in the backstory actually explains how Jiren was able to get so strong

He did a gazillion push ups.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#87902: Oct 7th 2018 at 11:04:48 PM

[up][up]That's not the same...

Edited by randomness4 on Oct 7th 2018 at 11:04:16 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87903: Oct 7th 2018 at 11:04:57 PM

Wait right yeah in Vinland Saga the main protagonists' father was murdered by a merc when he was a boy so he devotes his life to vengeance and when he becomes old enough to fight which is around a teenager, he constantly challenges the merc to mortal combat only to lose every-time.

The twist there is that the boy tags along with the merc's company meaning he could never go back home so he actually works under said merc, following his orders without hesitation or remorse which includes killing people with the promise that he can challenge the merc at anytime he wants.

The further twist is that the merc actually grows attached to the boy becoming his father figure and when he finally does die his last words are to express worry for the boys future as with his death now that he no longer has a reason for living.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 8th 2018 at 12:05:34 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#87904: Oct 7th 2018 at 11:09:34 PM

That sounds pretty good. I'd always heard Vinland Saga was great but this is actually the first plot related thing about it I've come across. I think I'll check it out later.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#87905: Oct 7th 2018 at 11:12:31 PM

[up][up][up][up]And drank a whole hogshead of the freshest juice.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87906: Oct 7th 2018 at 11:14:55 PM

[up][up] Oh you should, I heavily recommend it. [tup]

One of my favorite manga, great art, great characters, & its getting an anime next year by the studio that does Attack on Titan.

One of the best moments is when a character avoids a major conflict just by talking & saying he'll run away to a far place if he has too. It works so amazingly well, the entire climax of that was just so incredibly written.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 7th 2018 at 11:20:04 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#87907: Oct 7th 2018 at 11:42:30 PM

It's made worse that nothing in the backstory actually explains how Jiren was able to get so strong.
I like that. It's better that we don't know and only have hints. I just assumed that Jiren was strong for the same reason Goku was. He doubtlessly had many adventures and fought many foes in the same way as Goku, he gathered a group of extraordinary individuals around him like Goku, and he's personally acquainted with (and stronger than) his universe's highest gods, like Goku.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87908: Oct 8th 2018 at 3:08:30 AM

Idle thought: Semiperfect Cell's lips shouldn't have been pink. They should've been orange, to match Imperfect Cell's mouth.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#87909: Oct 8th 2018 at 4:22:47 AM

I think he should've just had a normal mouth. I realize the lips are a sort of bridge between Imperfect's beak and Perfect's perfect jawline, but still, they look too goofy to take seriously.

The legend has returned.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#87910: Oct 8th 2018 at 5:22:31 AM

Semi-Perfect's design is honestly just a mess. It doesn't really work as an in-between to imperfect and Perfect.

This song needs more love.
Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#87911: Oct 8th 2018 at 5:37:19 AM

Funny thing about semi perfect Cell is that his budokai tenkaichi 3 bio says that he thinks himself as "the most beautiful thing in the universe" at least in the spanish one

The bio chalk it up to Vegeta being more prominent in this form

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87912: Oct 8th 2018 at 6:46:30 AM

I appreciate the vibe Semiperfect Cell was going for, since it was meant to serve dual purposes of being an in-between state of Imperfect Cell's more insectoid features and Perfect Cell's more human features, as well as being a 2nd-3rd Form Freeza-esque "larger, more monstrous form than the previous one, preceding the Bishōnen Line final form (hell, Cell's forms are even the page image for the trope)".

Looking at the forms again, I can see the progression. Imperfect Cell's black head bio-gem moves back on the head to in-between the horns. Imperfect's orange mouth actually morphs down to become Semiperfect's chinstrap, which becomes gold with Perfect Cell. I just feel like there could've been more cohesion between the forms.

Have the areas of skin that would become white on Perfect Cell be a lighter shade of green on Semiperfect Cell. Have the areas that would become black on Perfect Cell be a darker shade of green on Semiperfect Cell. Give Semiperfect Cell the beginnings of Perfect Cell's purple tearstripes on his face. Have Semiperfect Cell keep the wings.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#87913: Oct 8th 2018 at 7:19:37 AM

Imperfect Cell's scalp, beak and crotch would work better if they were black and shiny dome-like structures (think Perfect Cell's crotch and scalp).

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#87914: Oct 8th 2018 at 8:28:22 AM

Were all (or even any) of Cell's transformations actually planned from the get-go?

I remember hearing that they weren't, and in fact only happened because of criticism about each of the forms. This is one of those things that sounds like it could be true, but I haven't heard anything official.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#87915: Oct 8th 2018 at 8:39:31 AM

Android and Cell sagas are just a series of Big Bad switcheroo.

I'm pretty sure when Toriyama decided to add Cell and received complaints about his appearance, he decided to go "fuck it" and add that he could absorbe 17 and 18 as a way to remove those two from the antagonist role and become the biggest threat.

I think it worked for Cell but later Toriyama tried to do the same with Majin Buu and the result was much more mixed

Edited by fasoman1996 on Oct 8th 2018 at 12:39:18 PM

Uni cat
XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#87916: Oct 8th 2018 at 9:07:21 AM

Edit: Though, that reminds me, have they gotten to Jiren's backstory in the manga? If so, is it the same as the anime, or different in any way?

In addition to what Moth 13 ("We haven't gotten to Jiren's backstory yet, but he has mentioned having a master"), Toriyama did write the basic outline for Jiren's backstory, according to Super Anime's Series Director Ryōta Nakamura:

"When we suggested [a talkative, hero of justice Jiren] to Toriyama-sensei, he replied that “Jiren is a character who doesn’t speak.” It was then that Toriyama-sensei sent us the backstory that his parents and martial arts master had been killed. He said that Jiren was this type of character, in contrast to Hit or Zamasu."

This is going to come down to an execution-based situation on Toyotaro's part. He might flesh things out, reinterpret the same information, or stick far too close to the barebones outline.

Edited by XMenMutant22 on Oct 8th 2018 at 12:11:57 PM

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#87917: Oct 8th 2018 at 9:58:03 AM

Did I just read someone talking smack about Janemba?

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#87918: Oct 8th 2018 at 10:03:58 AM

Same issue with Broly.

Cool concept, cool powers, very awesome fights but the villain himself is meh. and a Majin Buu rip-off

Uni cat
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#87919: Oct 8th 2018 at 10:06:57 AM

He's a movie villain. How much do you need?

This song needs more love.
Xeino Since: Jul, 2017
#87920: Oct 8th 2018 at 10:18:16 AM

Honestly I like Semi-Perfect Cell's design because it's hit Uncanny Valley with his face being almost but not quite human in features. In some ways that's creepier than the insectoid face of his imperfect form.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#87921: Oct 8th 2018 at 10:25:59 AM

I think I forgive Janemba more than Broly for the crap he pulls because I think it makes sense for him to not make sense. He's a regular Joe Oni that got in an accident at his job in the afterlife.

The legend has returned.
Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#87922: Oct 8th 2018 at 10:59:11 AM

Plus Janemba only appeared in one movie and was the main antagonist of shin budokai, so isn't as overexposed as Broly

Edited by Fedetropes on Oct 8th 2018 at 3:00:06 PM

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#87923: Oct 8th 2018 at 11:09:06 AM

In addition to what Moth 13 ("We haven't gotten to Jiren's backstory yet, but he has mentioned having a master"), Toriyama did write the basic outline for Jiren's backstory, according to Super Anime's Series Director Ryōta Nakamura:

"When we suggested [a talkative, hero of justice Jiren] to Toriyama-sensei, he replied that “Jiren is a character who doesn’t speak.” It was then that Toriyama-sensei sent us the backstory that his parents and martial arts master had been killed. He said that Jiren was this type of character, in contrast to Hit or Zamasu." This is going to come down to an execution-based situation on Toyotaro's part. He might flesh things out, reinterpret the same information, or stick far too close to the barebones outline.

So do we blame Toei for being too faithful and putting too little effort into it, or Toriyama for giving Jiren such a weak backstory?

Edited by HandsomeRob on Oct 8th 2018 at 12:09:04 PM

One Strip! One Strip!
Xeino Since: Jul, 2017
#87924: Oct 8th 2018 at 11:14:18 AM

Anyone else think that Jiren being a boring strength-obsessed iron wall was actually very much the point of his character when compared as a foil to Goku?

Edited by Xeino on Oct 8th 2018 at 11:15:10 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87925: Oct 8th 2018 at 11:17:28 AM

I feel like that point would have some substance if Goku wasn’t rather boring himself.

Or if his Blood Knight tendencies that threatened the multiverse actually went somewhere.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 8th 2018 at 11:20:11 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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