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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87451: Sep 29th 2018 at 1:53:27 AM

If you don't have the same level of ki, you're not even a player. You can't use clever tricks or well place tech to beat these guys. You can't.

In Resurrection F, Freeza beat Vegeta by blowing up the Earth even though Vegeta was kicking the shit out of him.

Whis's do-overs seem to just be a specific ability he has not tied to his power level.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87452: Sep 29th 2018 at 3:47:38 AM

I had an idea to consolidate Jiren's various character traits into a cohesive personality. How does this sound:

He sincerely believes in being a superhero and saving everyone, but he also refuses to let himself trust or rely on anyone. He believes that trusting or relying on others makes you weaker, and while it's okay for the civilians of Universe 11 to be weak because they trust and believe in the Pride Troopers, Jiren refuses to trust or rely on anyone because he can't be weak. Jiren believes that he can't allow himself to trust anyone or be weak, both because he doesn't want to feel betrayed again by anyone breaking that trust, but also because Jiren feels a responsibility that he has to be the strongest person in the universe so that he can save everyone and stop every threat.

This doesn't perfectly gel with everything Jiren says, but this is more a suggestion for what would be the best possible personality for Jiren given the story being told about him, not a re-interpretation of what his personality already is.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87453: Sep 29th 2018 at 4:12:30 AM

I hope Broly has a personality this time.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#87454: Sep 29th 2018 at 8:16:49 AM

That Uub and Beerus fic was really good.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#87455: Sep 29th 2018 at 8:46:09 AM

In Resurrection F, Freeza beat Vegeta by blowing up the Earth even though Vegeta was kicking the shit out of him.

Well, that was more or less lucky, but I see your point. I think that was supposed to be because of Vegeta's supposed overthinking bullshit, but it's really just that Toriyama wanted Vegeta to lose a fight that (and I know there's gonna be some pushback on this) he deserved to win. I've gone back and forth on it myself considering how much shit Vegeta has pulled and all, but in this particular case Vegeta killing Freeza wasn't entirely about him.

Sure, he probably wanted revenge for the deaths of his father, the entire Saiyan race, and his long and painful enslavement and then death, but considering how blasé he was about the entire thing, you get the feeling he no longer considered destroying Freeza the absolute thing he had before and just wanted it done with.

Also, I suspect he also wanted to protect his family, so no entirely selfish, but Toriyama still decided to subvert expectations and deny him that win.

Now again, you can say, but he doesn't deserve the win, and you may be right, but if he'd done it here, we might not have gotten that bullshit with Frost in the Universe 6 tournament, which was arguably detrimental to the Universe 7 team.

Of course, the fact that Goku and Vegeta could have prevented the entire thing by just attacking Freeza together can also be used against them as well. But as we've said, Resurrection F in it's entirety is an Idiot Plot.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87456: Sep 29th 2018 at 9:04:42 AM

I think if there's one thing I like about Jaco The Galactic Patrolman and the Tournament of Power it's that now it is really clear that all of the Dragon Ball setting is just one big idiot plot.

It's idiots all the way down.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#87457: Sep 29th 2018 at 9:13:57 AM

And then the fandom chastises those who either don't like fighting or use their smarts in combat. If you aren't a big dumb brute, get lost.

I wonder, which of all the Dragon Ball arcs (From the original DB to Super) is the most idiotic of Idiot Plots in the franchise?

For me it's a toss up between Cell and Buu Sagas

Uni cat
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#87458: Sep 29th 2018 at 9:41:12 AM

I'd say Cell.

When you deliberately let something happen for nebulous reasons (while being warned three years ahead of time that it's going to happen), it's pretty much Idiot Plot du jour.

And I like the Cell Saga, but there's very little doubt that Toriyama did an awful job to justify why things went as they did.

One Strip! One Strip!
Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#87459: Sep 29th 2018 at 4:10:09 PM

Budokai tenkaichi 3 mods are a trip

They also have the keyblade form kingdom hearts into his moveset

Edited by Fedetropes on Sep 29th 2018 at 8:13:29 AM

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87460: Sep 29th 2018 at 4:45:18 PM

Watching DBZA reminded me how much I hate eleven-year-old/"teen"/Cell Games Gohan with his natural black hair, and how much I love and adore Full Power Super Saiyan just, as a concept.

In a way, it's more insulting and degrading than Goten and Trunks, or even that thing about focusing energy to the small of your back.

Using the ultimate, legendary, prophesied transformation of an extinct warrior race because it's a cheaper way to change your look than hair dye.

Yeah, I know Goku came up with it for fighting reasons at first, not fashion, but. Don't lie, the fashion potential is there.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#87461: Sep 29th 2018 at 7:28:23 PM

Full Powered Super Saiyan is great.

Shame he can't apply the same principle to the other Super Saiyan Forms, but I guess the energy drain is just too high with them. No amount of getting used to it will help.

Or at least that's what I'm assuming. I'm sure Toriyama could come up with a reason for why the idea would or wouldn't work with Super Saiyans 2, 3, God and Blue.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87462: Sep 29th 2018 at 8:02:00 PM

I just wonder what the plot justification for not staying Super Saiyan all the time after the Cell Games is.

I mean, I guess they were caught on camera, and they want to stay incognito, but like. Goku's not a Super Saiyan when he's dead either.

And Vegeta wouldn't give a shit. Vegeta isnt shown or said to do the Full Power Super Saiyan thing, but he admits that it's brilliant.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#87463: Sep 29th 2018 at 8:09:54 PM

Why do you "dislike" Gohand's natural black hair...?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87464: Sep 29th 2018 at 8:10:27 PM

Well, Goku said that they can't stay in Full Power Super Saiyan while sleeping (contradicting the Krillin rock scene in the anime), so it probably requires at least a tiny bit of concentration and energy to maintain. It's just a negligible amount.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87465: Sep 29th 2018 at 8:12:42 PM

[up][up] Because Gohan's Super Saiyan hair before Cell is the only 'do in his entire life that ever looked good on him?

Do I seriously have to bring up the bowl cut?

[up] ...Wait, what? I thought in the manga he specifically said doing it asleep.

It's been a while, but. I could have sworn.

And, sure it takes energy, but so does being alive. That's what food and sleep is for. Deep breathing.

Even chewing and digestion takes energy, technically. Everything costs something. The question is how much you make back. You gotta spend energy to make energy, I think the saying goes.

It's the concentration I'm more surprised by.

Edited by unnoun on Sep 29th 2018 at 11:20:05 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87466: Sep 29th 2018 at 8:25:16 PM

Gohan looks good no matter what his hair is.

If memory serves, Goku's line is something along the lines of "And we'll stay Super Saiyan the entire time, except when we're eating or sleeping."

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 29th 2018 at 8:24:50 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87467: Sep 29th 2018 at 8:37:59 PM

That's disappointing, lame and nonsensical.

So par for the course I suppose.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87468: Sep 29th 2018 at 8:40:30 PM

It’s a transformation.

It’s not supposed to be permanent.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87469: Sep 29th 2018 at 8:46:57 PM

It's cooler that way though.

...Also, plenty of transformations are permanent sometimes. Cell and Buu. And technically Freeza's First Form is a transformation designed to seal his power to be more manageable, and his Final Form was his natural state.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#87470: Sep 29th 2018 at 8:55:11 PM

Permanent due to method...I guess.

"Teen" Gohand's hair when it's not bleach white...is positive.

Edited by randomness4 on Sep 29th 2018 at 8:56:49 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87471: Sep 29th 2018 at 8:59:19 PM

[up]Is not, it's negative and bad and you know it.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#87472: Sep 29th 2018 at 9:00:16 PM

It'd probably just be better to say that Super Saiyan isn't a transformation meant to be permanent.

Functionally it's pretty different from Cell's and Frieza's, at least until he bullshits his golden form.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87473: Sep 29th 2018 at 9:00:38 PM

Eh the shade of yellow they used was ugly anyway.

SS only looks good with the aura, not when it’s bleached.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Xeino Since: Jul, 2017
#87474: Sep 29th 2018 at 9:00:42 PM

A question in light of the most recent episode of Super to air on Toonami, how much of of the Z-Warriors' recklessness is excusable in your eyes when said reckless and selfish decisions turn out to have good results in the long run (See not killing Vegeta at the end of the Saiyan arc) and they always try their best to fix the damage in the end?

Edited by Xeino on Sep 29th 2018 at 9:03:58 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#87475: Sep 29th 2018 at 9:03:33 PM

I didn't like how they handled that subplot (not an uncommon viewpoint, I know).

Either go all the way with it and Goku's character, and change the circumstances so that people blaming Goku doesn't seem reasonable.

But playing it up like Goku's going too far, only to awkwardly back peddle and try and say he's actually giving them all a chance for survival was lame.

Edited by LSBK on Sep 29th 2018 at 11:03:04 AM


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