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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#87376: Sep 27th 2018 at 12:34:16 PM

This is such a playground fight its charming.

Edited by VeryMelon on Sep 27th 2018 at 3:38:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87377: Sep 27th 2018 at 12:51:21 PM

I actually kind of like that Cumber's unique Super Saiyan hair color appears to be orange. That said, if base Cumber can fight evenly with SSB KK Vegetto, Super Saiyan Oozaru Cumber should've been like on the Grand Priest's level.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87378: Sep 27th 2018 at 1:07:15 PM

Is it me or do all Saiyan's look the same now?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#87379: Sep 27th 2018 at 1:46:11 PM

I really like Fu's addition to the series- he's one of the most powerful beings in the whole franchise and we know nothing about him other than that he's a scholar type dude that likes poking at stuff to see how far it goes.

I also like the idea of creating someone who's so far beyond any other character we've seen so far, with Xenoverse's DLC implying that he might even be more powerful than the likes of Beerus, Jiren, and UI Goku. note 

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#87380: Sep 27th 2018 at 2:14:29 PM

Really?

I don't know if creating another all powerful character that's even more powerful than the last all powerful dude is something Dragonball needs more of.

One Strip! One Strip!
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#87381: Sep 27th 2018 at 2:25:15 PM

Er, I like it because he's exclusively been in side material and is someone who takes up the craziness up to 11, something Heroes represents.

If he was a main series villain I might have a problem with him, but as he is I think he's really interesting.

Plus he ties back to the Demon Realm, which was sorely underdeveloped yet is so very interesting. I also just like demon realm characters in general.

Edited by EpicBleye on Sep 27th 2018 at 5:28:48 AM

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#87382: Sep 27th 2018 at 3:26:01 PM

I think what helps Fu out a lot is that he's not really looking for fights, he just wants to experiment and have fun, and generally means little harm.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#87383: Sep 27th 2018 at 4:25:46 PM

Fu's not an antagonist, he's a shitposter.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87384: Sep 27th 2018 at 4:36:19 PM

Yeah, Xenoverse 2's DLC went out of its way to explicitly establish, over and over again, that Fu is not evil nor good. Fu is aggressively Chaotic Neutral.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#87385: Sep 27th 2018 at 11:11:21 PM

Fu is essentially "what if Dragon Ball Heroes was a person."

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#87386: Sep 28th 2018 at 12:31:02 AM

Fu is a fanfic writer's self-insert

Edited by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 on Sep 29th 2018 at 7:33:20 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87387: Sep 28th 2018 at 12:32:22 AM

Fu is the type of self-insert character who gets meta about being a fanfic writer and makes creating fanfic scenarios into his character motivation.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 28th 2018 at 12:35:09 PM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87388: Sep 28th 2018 at 3:13:23 AM

It's weird, given Toriyama's contributions to Online I would have thought the Demon Realm stuff would have. Been in Super. Like, at all.

Granted, in Online the Demon Realm stuff is more of a threat for that era and those characters, in Age 1000 and not Goku and company in the. Age 700s.

Like, if I was a writer, and I had a character or story concept, and I got the chance to explore it I'd just sorta. Do it. And not care as much about the timeline.

...Even if Mr. Buu making Buuby isn't supposed to happen until after Z, I still want an Episode of Super or a gag short about him finding the porn that lead to Buuby's creation.

Mr. Satan, or Videl, or anybody, really, having to explain to Buu the concept of pornography.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87389: Sep 28th 2018 at 3:17:21 AM

[up]At least Heroes explores the Demon Realm stuff. Super also included a lot of possible foreshadowing for Gohan's book that teaches humans how to use ki.

It's kind of funny that, when Online was new, Goku and Vegeta creating a supernova-level event from their final battle was epic and a bigger feat than anything either had demonstrated. But now, after Super, Goku and Vegeta could probably fart supernovas in their strongest forms, and the implication has changed from "Goku and Vegeta got way stronger after Z" to "Goku and Vegeta got way weaker after Super".

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 28th 2018 at 3:20:23 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87390: Sep 28th 2018 at 3:29:15 AM

...I mean, if Gohan's book was, like. Scientifically based, and empirically validated and all that good shit. Pretty sure there should be, like, experiments and whatever.

An episode of, even without explanation, Gohan powering up or something, and then going back to his desk and taking a bunch of notes.

Gohan slacking in his training to get his foot in the door in the scientific community is one thing, but once you're there, and you start working on your actual thesis, things get. Weird. Lots of down-time, but like really high-stress down-time.

If Gohan's life's work is going to be about ki, and if he already plans on that and has it in mind. He should probably still be able to do it better than he does in Super?

...I mean, I think Gohan's PHD thesis is probably different from Groundbreaking Science, because I think he doesn't write the book until after he has the PHD.

But from what I remember, Groundbreaking Science was meant to be this culmination of Gohan's entire studies and career and life up to that point and shit.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87391: Sep 28th 2018 at 3:41:47 AM

Yeah, it hasn't been overt. It's why I said "possible" foreshadowing, since all he's doing at the moment is reading books and going to college. I would REALLY love a Super arc focusing on Gohan writing and publishing Groundbreaking Science (although they really should retcon the name to something better). Like, maybe he gets Bulma to help him with the stuff he's not as good at. I've always liked the idea of Bulma being a Science Mentor to Gohan, and I think that would be a really cute relationship to make canon.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87392: Sep 28th 2018 at 3:49:09 AM

Like, the Dragon Ball Online stuff doesn't explicitly mention Gero and the Androids and all that, in relation to Groundbreaking Science, but.

If they have any blueprints of #19 and #20, that energy absorption shit would be really goddamned useful, and probably interesting and unique in its own right!

Granted, just mentioning Gero's name is probably a red flag to every single ethics committee on Earth, but still.

Gohan doing ki stuff scientifically is a thing I want.

Like, him timing himself flying fast, and then writing a bunch of equations about it.

Him measuring a rock, or getting Shin to make, like, some katchin or other, less dense and hard material of an exact size and weight and then blowing it up.

Like, I'm not even asking for, like, actual scientific methodology, but like. Just, some sort of visual shorthand or montage or fucking anything about "there is science being done, and that science is about ki".

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87393: Sep 28th 2018 at 3:54:52 AM

I'm curious if it takes energy to keep a ki ball consciously intact. I've been thinking that Gohan should make a small ki ball and then study that, and fully break down what ki exactly is. Maybe Godly ki is actually just normal ki on a different wavelength, or maybe there is something actually fundamentally different about it. Also, how does the Love energy the Kamikaze Fireballs use differ from ki and Godly ki? These questions and more are the kinds of things I want Gohan to seek out the answers to.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87394: Sep 28th 2018 at 4:08:08 AM

I mean, a career-spanning, life's-work post-doctorate thesis like Groundbreaking Science is said or implied to be takes years, potentially decades to work on and create, so even if Groundbreaking Science itself isn't actually published until Age 804, some of the preliminary work should by all rights already have started in Super.

Especially if I'm interpreting what Online says correctly, and Gohan did most of the work in secret?? Which, like, isn't quite how science works, but it's the same issue of Masquerade throughout the series.

For Gohan's work to get any scientific merit at all, he has to have thought of everything, and done everything perfectly the first time.

Help from Bulma, with Gohan and Bulma in Capsule Corp's lab while Gohan and Bulma talk about Scouters and the Gravity Chamber and Android Blueprints and all that.

Like, according to the wiki, in Dragon Ball Online Gohan came up with the idea for Groundbreaking Science because of Goku's death in Age 801, but, like, fuck that? Three years is fucking nothing in academia. Especially for something like ki. Like, if anything could earn the title of "Groundbreaking Science" it would be that.

EDIT: Like, maybe Bulma combines some of the old Scouter tech with a microscope to measure the power levels of bacteria!

That's interesting to me!

Do some scientific study or research on the Spirit Bomb/Genki Dama! Ask King Kai about it, why he came up with it!

...Granted, asking god about shit isn't exactly scientific, but. Interviewing other experts for input isn't a bad idea, if you're trying to be comprehensive. Citations. Previous work on the subject. Background info.

Edited by unnoun on Sep 28th 2018 at 7:22:34 AM

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#87395: Sep 28th 2018 at 5:10:05 AM

Darwin spent 20 years musing on The Origin Of Species, until Wallace pretty much told him he came to the same conclusion on his own, so it makes sense: Gohan works on and off his life on it, Goku dies, and Gohan puts his life's work onto a book.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87396: Sep 28th 2018 at 6:23:39 AM

Right, but the least Super could do is show the "on and off his life" part of that equation.

Edited by unnoun on Sep 28th 2018 at 9:25:57 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#87397: Sep 28th 2018 at 8:08:20 AM

[up]

It'd be wonderful, but it's pretty clear that Toei and Toriyama just don't care about that.

I mean, since they won't let them do anything in fights, this kind of stuff would be great. At least it'd be something.

Hell, I'd love to see Gohan study the principles behind the Kaioken and Spirit Bomb as well. Maybe get something out of them.

Like, the Dragon Ball Online stuff doesn't explicitly mention Gero and the Androids and all that, in relation to Groundbreaking Science, but.

If they have any blueprints of #19 and #20, that energy absorption shit would be really goddamned useful, and probably interesting and unique in its own right!

Also good, but I can't help but think that the Z Warriors tendency to destroy almost any advanced tech that comes into play makes that impossible. I've brought up the tendency for that to happen before, and I can't help but think it's a deliberate choice on Toriyama's part to keep Earth from getting more advanced technology and maybe somehow closing that pesky power gap that they constantly run into.

After all, then they could rely on someone besides Goku, and we can't have that.

Ok, that last part is me being a cynical douche. It's uncalled for and I apologize.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87398: Sep 28th 2018 at 8:26:35 AM

I mean, Goku's going to die in Age 801, and Super is so far up to. Age 780?

The End Of Z and 28th World Tournament were in Age 784.

...If Android 21 is popular enough for other things to use her (which, I mean, I honestly do like her, which is frankly surprising to me) how the hell would she be introduced in the series? Because FighterZ is a fun video game, and the story is fun as video game stories go and the character interactions are amazing and I love them.

But the actual plot is a hot steaming messy pile of garbage. And mostly just the most blatant video game excuse plot I've seen.

The only one of the villains that could work to come back is Freeza, and only because Super's already brought him back. They and the clones are only there to have mooks. Same with the suppression waves which is only there to make the game a fun and balanced fighting game.

The stuff about the souls is. What. I almost like the part where Gero was researching souls before he died because of fucking course he was, but the stuff about linking is just. More video gamey bullshit.

...I weirdly really love the idea of Android 21 just making a new Android 16 with a memory backup from the old one.

I honestly want to know how anyone could possibly rewrite the story to work better on its own.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#87399: Sep 28th 2018 at 8:39:45 AM

Eh. They could leave out the Souls shit for one.

The idea of 21 trying to weaken the Z Warriors to make it easier to eat some of them (especially Goku and Vegeta) isn't so crazy to me (though I'm not sure if it should work on Blue Goku and Vegeta really considering some of the shit that Gods can just No-Sell).

The stuff with reviving the old enemies is much harder. In the Villain Arc, we see 16 and 21 on Namek and using Porunga, who would in fact be able to revive those guys with less issues than Shenron, but that creates the bigger issue of how she even got there since nobody can find New Namek unless they can Instant Transmission or Kai Kai themselves there.

But if you can figure that out, that's more or less the plot.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87400: Sep 28th 2018 at 8:57:10 AM

I mean, the thing is she probably doesn't want to weaken them per se, because they supposedly taste better the stronger they are.

There's a weird balance with Evil!21 I like, where she's not in it for a good fight per se, but she does want strong fighters. It's almost but not quite pragmatic?

There's a few points where she cheats or skips the fight to eat someone instantly. I think Evil!21 even says she honestly doesnt care about fighting, which to me seems like blasphemy in this franchise.

It's mostly a weird way where making your enemies stronger instead of wiping them out right away sorta is based on something other than Saiyan love of good fights.

Instead it's gluttony and hedonism.

...I'll be honest, Good!21 is a 1000 times more interesting to me than Evil!21 ever is, which is funny to me because with Fat Buu it was basically the opposite.

EDIT: Actually, wait, after a rewatch I saw the part wherr Evil!21 calls Goku her "sweetie Goku" and that's great. And kinda gross. Good, interesting moment for Evil!21.

Edited by unnoun on Sep 28th 2018 at 12:17:23 PM


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