TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

Xeino Since: Jul, 2017
#87301: Sep 22nd 2018 at 9:03:23 PM

I think that the real main problem about Super is that it that spent most of it's run at war with itself by being tore between the past of the franchise and trying to give it a future that doesn't repeat the mistakes of Gt and it's only really around the The Tournament of Power that it starts to find the right balance and push things forward again that have mostly stay in place since the Buu arc. Resurrection F was the absolute worst part because it had nothing to do but try to relive the glory days of the Namek arc and that is a dead end.

In many ways, the upcoming Broly movie will serve as the ultimate judgment on Super. It succeeds then Super can be seen as a difficult birthing process that led to something worthwhile maybe in the end and if not, then it's the mortal wound that sunk the attempt to bring Dragon Ball into the 21st century. But as always YMMV as even if the Broly movie turns out to be good, it still might not meet the expectations of some people here.

Edited by Xeino on Sep 22nd 2018 at 10:36:50 AM

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#87302: Sep 22nd 2018 at 9:15:47 PM

I think the end of Z kinda holds back a lot of the potention for a new DB series. I mean, the ending of Z is kind of a base breaker when i hear discussions about it. I wonder if they will try and retcon it out of existence. Not the first time it happens.

That said, we can't know until we see the Broly movie. If he doesn't solo the entire cast that i'm not sold

Uni cat
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87303: Sep 22nd 2018 at 9:18:38 PM

It’s kinda a bad idea to put an epic end of the universe arc in an interquel.

It rather deflated the tension when you know the main cast is under no actual threat or surprise character developments.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87304: Sep 22nd 2018 at 9:30:07 PM

I mean, to me one of the big problems with GT was that Goku was even in it.

And Kid Goku at that.

If I wanted to rewrite GT, I'd have it so baby!Pilaf and company wished Goku into being an old man, and then Uub, Pan and a third one have to find the Dragon Balls. I'm thinking Bra.

Setting things after the end of Z seems to open more possibilities to me.

Especially since Goku mentions it being since Buu that he had a good, fun fight.

Throwing some shade on Jiren, Hit and Beerus there.

Broly too, I guess, but sonehow I'm most offended on Beerus's behalf.

Dont give a shit about Zamasu and Frieza. Certainly not on the fights at least, I like Zamasu conceptually, and the fact that Goku is the one that pushed him over the edge is actually my favorite detail, and inclines me to have a more favorable and charitable opinion towards Zamasu and his arc than he probably deserves.

The fights were kinda hot garbage though.

Edited by unnoun on Sep 22nd 2018 at 12:41:20 PM

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#87305: Sep 22nd 2018 at 9:42:24 PM

Now i think there are a few things in Super that outright contradict the end of Z, besides transformations obviously.

Like, there is a big Frieza in the room that has to be addressed. Unless he gets offed in the Broly movie, again. Frieza trying hard to beat Krillin and Chiatzou's record.

Uni cat
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87306: Sep 22nd 2018 at 9:44:42 PM

I mean, does end of Z mention Frieza?

He could be fucking off in space, I guess.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#87307: Sep 22nd 2018 at 9:47:10 PM

I find it hard to believe that he is not trying to kill Goku and pals again. There is still a 3-4 year gap between Super and End of Z.

And if he is training again, then i want to see how Diamond Frieza fares versus Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2: Maximum Kaoiken.

Uni cat
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87308: Sep 22nd 2018 at 9:51:07 PM

I mean, maybe Frieza decided to learn when to fold 'em, and focus on his real estate business.

They say the best revenge is living well and all that.

Goku kinda sucks as a hero of justice because he really only cares about one world. Frieza can torture the entire rest of the cosmos as he pleases with no comeuppance.

Who's gonna stop him, Jaco?

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#87309: Sep 22nd 2018 at 10:43:28 PM

I'm certain Freeza's going to continue trying to murder Goku, but during the ToP he witnessed Ultra Instinct for himself and I think he knows he can't match that right now.

We'll have to see how his part in the Broly movie goes down.

Who's gonna stop [Freeza], Jaco?

Beerus might. We already know he doesn't particularly like Freeza, since one of the first things he said after waking up was "Hm, maybe I should go destroy him next".

And the near-miss of getting annihilated because his Universe's mortal level is too low might cause him to rethink how he approaches being a God of Destruction.

Edited by DarkHunter on Sep 22nd 2018 at 11:46:15 AM

Xeino Since: Jul, 2017
#87310: Sep 22nd 2018 at 10:44:42 PM

Hence why there is a 75% chance that he dies yet again in the Broly movie. I think Toriyama has more than enough of conscious to know that Frieza can't go back to terrorizing the cosmos for very long and let Z-Warriors not do anything about it and that it would be far too much to swallow that he could ever be fully redeem after hammering home how evil he is over and over again.

Edited by Xeino on Sep 22nd 2018 at 10:48:04 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#87311: Sep 22nd 2018 at 11:39:28 PM

TBH, once they announced that Super would be a midquel I suspected End Of Z would end up getting the Broad Strokes treatment. Those kinds of 20 Minutes into the Future epilogues tend to be the first things to be modified once previously concluded (or attempted concluded) stories get continuations, since new stories tend not to want to be limited by them. This got more and more likely as it became clear that Super has no real intended end to it and, in a bit of a Western style, the franchise seems geared up to keep going more or less in perpetuity: epilogues especially get the hatchet when continuations have no plans on ending themselves, because new stories are going to keep coming.

I expect at some point we'll get a redo of End Of Z as part of a new storyline, but including the new things added to the continuity in Super.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 22nd 2018 at 11:44:30 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87312: Sep 23rd 2018 at 12:19:48 AM

At the very least hopefully the next anime after the Broly movie takes place after End of Z.

Though I hope Super's dub finishes before it starts. Toonami just aired the Gohan vs Lavender fight so the arc should wrap up in 51 weeks which is then converted to months then converted into years is...... over a year.

And this if there are no marathons.

Shit what I should be hoping for is that the new shows dub doesn't start over half-way in its running.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 23rd 2018 at 12:19:38 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#87313: Sep 23rd 2018 at 12:31:48 AM

Who's gonna stop him, Jaco?
Vegeta. If Jaco or Kibito offered to take him to Freeza so he could kill him, he'd definitely say yes. Gohan could also probably do it going by the manga's continuity, and also would be willing.

It would be amusing if Freeza escapes the Broly movie unharmed only to figure out that the Pride Troopers decided to extend their patrol to U7. Cue death by Jiren.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Sep 23rd 2018 at 12:37:33 PM

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#87314: Sep 23rd 2018 at 11:14:17 AM

Limit Breaker X Survivor is hot garbage in Latin America. I didn't think they could screw up so royally, but now the opening sucks. It sucks so bad is sad for the reputation of the Latin American dub and Lalo Garza's work as a voice director.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87315: Sep 23rd 2018 at 1:41:03 PM

since new stories tend not to want to be limited by them

I honestly have no idea how the end of Z is a limit if they just set Super afterwards.

In GT they basically mostly ignored all the new characters introduced in the End of Z, and then had the impressive audacity to both depower Goku and then have him do everything anyway.

Edited by unnoun on Sep 23rd 2018 at 4:40:49 AM

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#87316: Sep 23rd 2018 at 2:01:38 PM

There's just no real reason Super couldn't have happened after End of Z. That perioed was just ignored because Nostalgia Sells.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#87317: Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:12:13 PM

There is a real reason: because that's when GT is set. They don't want to explicitly take GT out of the continuity, and prefer to keep a vision of the franchise where Super happens before it. Contrary to what English and Spanish speaking fans on the Internet claim, DB doesn't actually have a canon and the IP holders very much prefer to keep it that way so they can keep hyping up GT-related merchandise.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:12:24 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87318: Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:13:42 PM

Ya think they’d bring back Super Saiyan 4 then.

I mean the internet broke when Broly came back, I can imagine the same will happen for 4.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:13:11 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#87319: Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:20:21 PM

I mean, Dragon Ball Online contradicted GT and took it out back and shot it.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#87320: Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:28:22 PM

DB Online is a video game that was then discontinued and cannibalized, on top of only being released in Korea and Taiwan to begin with. Video games contradict stuff all the time. Not the same thing as a full series.

GT lasted 64 episodes, averaging 15% of Japan's audience TV ratings, with a ton of spin-off media (video games, TV specials, ani-mangas, guidebooks, etc.) and greater home video sales than DB or DBZ in the early 2000s. They're still adding GT characters to video games and as DLC, and crossing them over with Super characters, as well as releasing random bits of other media like the SS 4's appearance in the Heroes anime and the ongoing anime comic adaptation. They're not just going to get rid of it.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#87321: Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:54:05 PM

But isn't GT an alternate universe? They can keep that as long as they clearly keep it as a spin-off or what if series.

And Super kinda hurts GT with the presence of higher deities and Super Saiyan God transformations

Uni cat
Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#87322: Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:56:52 PM

Especially the fact that Vegeta would either be able to handle baby when he showed up on earth.

One can assume Beerus is napping during the course of GT.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#87323: Sep 23rd 2018 at 4:09:18 PM

But isn't GT an alternate universe?
Only in fanon. Officially nothing of the sort has been stated. There really are few to no official rulings about canon or continuity.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87324: Sep 23rd 2018 at 5:42:00 PM

It's stated to be an alternate universe in Xenoverse, and Toriyama said it was a "side story". Additionally, a lot of Super material contradicts GT, from the Pilaf Gang ages, to 17's strength, to GT villains being comparable to Buu in terms of power, with Super Saiyan 4 being as strong as Buu Saga Vegetto, to multiple wishes made on Shenron in Super that were never mentioned by the Shadow Dragons, to the multitude of characters Super introduced who are never mentioned or referenced in GT.

Hell, Ultra Instinct has been stated to be the strongest Goku's ever been in the whole franchise, and GT has many people explicitly weaker than that stated to have stronger ki than anyone ever had.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 23rd 2018 at 5:46:01 AM

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#87325: Sep 23rd 2018 at 5:44:35 PM

Well you see, Broly is so strong he punched reality like Superboy Prime and caused a bunch of changes in the universe.

Sorry for spoiling the ending of the movie.

Edited by Moth13 on Sep 23rd 2018 at 8:44:04 AM


Total posts: 130,800
Top