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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86876: Sep 11th 2018 at 6:08:32 PM

Partially because I'm crazy, and partially for an entirely separate reason, I decided to test the power inflation of this series. I boiled down all power gaps in this franchise into 51 tiers, ranging from the start of the series to the end of Super. These tiers are determined either with a major plot substantial gap or by increments of 2-3 times multipliers. Anything smaller than "important and large gap" or "1.4x stronger" isn't counted as a separate tier of power. I will be counting how much power inflation is introduced per arc, which means how many tiers of power each arc adds onto the last one. Non-combatants and average humans are exempt. Outliers will be mentioned and excluded on a case-by-case basis.

  • The first arc of Dragon Ball introduced 4 tiers of power: people weaker than Goku, people who can fight Goku, people stronger than Goku, like Ox King, and Roshi. Oozaru Kid Goku is an outlier and is excluded, since it would add a ton of tiers by itself.

  • The 21st Tenkaichi Budokai doesn't introduce any new tiers, since the top two fighters are both as strong as Roshi. Oozaru Goku is, again, an outlier.

  • The Red Ribbon Army Arc adds 2 more tiers of power.

  • The 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai adds 1 more tier of power.

  • The King Piccolo Arc adds 2 tiers of power.

  • The 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai adds 2 more tiers of power, for a grand total of 11 tiers in all of Dragon Ball.

  • The Saiyan Arc adds a whopping 9 tiers of power. Oozaru Vegeta isn't as big of an outlier here, but he still adds another 3 tiers by himself, so if excluded, the number would actually be 6.

  • The Freeza Saga adds another 9 tiers of power, and keep in mind that all of those are Freeza himself. Oozaru Vegeta is as strong as Kaioken Namek Goku, so he covers everything up to 1st Form Freeza. If Oozaru Vegeta is excluded from the Saiyan Arc as an outlier, then the Freeza Saga goes up to 12 tiers of power.

  • The Cell Saga adds another 7 tiers of power.

  • The Buu Saga adds another 7 tiers of power, bringing the total up to 43. That's 32 whole tiers of power in Z alone!

  • Battle of Gods technically introduces 8 tiers of power, but it can be argued that both Beerus and Whis are outliers, since their level of power is still seen as end-game material in the Tournament of Power. Excluding Beerus and Whis from the list, Battle of Gods only introduces 1 tier of power.

  • Resurrection 'F' introduces 1 tier of power.

  • The U6 Tournament introduces 3 tiers of power, all of which are varying levels of SSB Kaioken.

  • The Future Trunks arc introduces 2 tiers of power, and Vegetto Blue serves as our official introduction to the God of Destruction tier.

  • The Tournament of Power introduces 1 new tier of power, and totals 8 from Super, 51 total tiers in the Dragon Ball franchise.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#86877: Sep 11th 2018 at 6:21:07 PM

I think it's just the numbering that is inaccurate, because it appears to be a different path of Super Saiyan.

In fairness, considering how much of a useless dead-end it is, I'm not sure the numbering is all that useful for Super Saiyan 3 either.

Super Saiyan 2 allegedly has more stamina drain than regular Super Saiyan, but I don't see it. After Cell Cellf-Destructs, Gohan seemingly falls back to Super Saiyan then powers up right back to Super Saiyan 2 immediately.

Super Saiyan 2's initial disadvantage is that it's born from a Saiyan attaining control over the Super Saiyan state physically and mentally, and then losing all that mental control. It's like going Super Saiyan while Super Saiyan, seemingly.

Which even makes sense with how Full Power Super Saiyan was all about making Super Saiyan like a new base form. With the characters even getting relaxed eyebrows instead of the constant angry and serious look.

Super Saiyan 3 doesnt really seem to deal with that? At least that we're seen or told about it.

what pissed off Goku for him to turn Super Saiyan 3 the first time

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#86878: Sep 11th 2018 at 6:43:31 PM

[up]

I get the feeling that one didn't require rage, but Goku pushing his training to new heights.

I feel like if there's a victory Vegeta maybe deserved, it's Frieza.

There's history there.

My big disappointment with Resurrection F is.

I wish Vegeta had killed Frieza in the timeline where Earth blew up.

Frieza blows up Earth, but Vegeta is still there and able to kill Frieza in the 30 seconds before the vacuum of space kills him.

That would have been a great moment and, honestly, probably how Vegeta always wanted to die growing up.

We've talked about how Vegeta wasn't really owed anything, and for the most part I agree, but I admit it was dickish of Toriyama to set up Vegeta to finally get his revenge, then have Frieza pull a rage quite...and this was after having Goku botch it too.

Subverting expectations and all that. He seems to want it that Goku doesn't win every fight, while simultaneously having everyone else fail even when they shouldn't.

That being said, I'm all over the place with how much Vegeta did or didn't deserve that win over Frieza. We know he can, but I get the feeling he'll never get that clean opportunity, because that seems like Toriyama's style.

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86879: Sep 11th 2018 at 6:47:30 PM

Trunks got to kill Freeza

That's not a terrible consolation prize, that Vegeta's son was the one who finished him off

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#86880: Sep 11th 2018 at 7:18:17 PM

This is Vegeta. Even at his nicest, it probably chafes him that he never got to kill Frieza.

Sure, he likely sees what [up] says that way now, but for him, it has to be with his own hands.

Well, that's what I say, but he was chill enough about the return of Frieza that he didn't try to step in (in the Battle of Gods version) until Goku couldn't fight anymore.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86881: Sep 12th 2018 at 7:53:23 AM

Come on, I worked for days on that tier thing. Talk about it at least a bit.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 12th 2018 at 7:53:09 AM

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#86882: Sep 12th 2018 at 8:44:32 AM

That's just a power level argument using different words.

We all know that power levels are bullshit anyway.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86883: Sep 12th 2018 at 9:15:24 AM

That's not what it's about. It's about measuring how much power escalation happened in each arc of the series. People complain about how certain arcs inflated the power escalation, so I broke it down to see just how much certain arcs did Power Creep, and compared them with each other.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#86884: Sep 12th 2018 at 10:12:09 AM

It’s amazing how everything has escalated so much.

I wonder how far they can take this.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#86885: Sep 12th 2018 at 10:33:12 AM

On a similar note, I did a rough drawing up of Goku's win/loss ratio, disregarding assisted wins and draws, and got something like 75.68% wins. (37 battles that were not assisted wins or draws, he won 28 of them). I've noticed how many more battles he had in the OG dragonball compared to Z.

Also, the only battle I considered an outright draw was the Majin Vegeta battle; they were evenly matched till the battle was interrupted.

(This was because I was watching a SPW video and he made an offhand comment about shonen protags winning 90-95% of the time and that seemed a fair bit higher than I thought it would be.)

Edited by Sigilbreaker26 on Sep 12th 2018 at 5:33:21 PM

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#86886: Sep 12th 2018 at 10:36:59 AM

[up]What's SPW?

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#86887: Sep 12th 2018 at 10:47:40 AM

Supereyepatch Wolf, a youtuber. A pretty good one, but that offhand comment got me thinking.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#86888: Sep 12th 2018 at 12:08:58 PM

Wait, what counts as an assist? Because off the top of my head, Vegeta, Ginyu, Frieza and Kid Buu were all fights with considerable help.

...Also, I would consider Fat Buu a draw. Goku fulfilled his objective of buying time for Trunks, but they never really finished the fight.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#86889: Sep 12th 2018 at 12:14:20 PM

I'd consider that a win since Goku fulfilled his victory condition. Victory doesn't always mean defeating the enemy.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#86890: Sep 12th 2018 at 12:19:09 PM

Fair enough.

I mean, does it count as an assist too though, considering it depends more on Trunks being able to find something than Goku's ability to beat an opponent?

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#86891: Sep 12th 2018 at 12:25:19 PM

Trunks' objective was different.

It's not an assist.

Karrot's role in stopping Boo would be the assist, not the other way around.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#86892: Sep 12th 2018 at 3:45:10 PM

What counts as an assisted win? Does the other character have to be throwing hands alongside Goku (like say Frieza and Goku pushing out Jiren together) or does it apply to something like Goku vs King Piccolo since Tien saved Goku's life at one point?

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#86893: Sep 12th 2018 at 5:33:36 PM

Nobody helped him fight Boo...

Fighting Boo stalled Babidi from getting to West City where Trunks was suppose to get the radar.

That's the assist.

Edited by randomness4 on Sep 12th 2018 at 5:35:45 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#86894: Sep 12th 2018 at 5:56:08 PM

Does Vegeta get credit for the assist in Cell's victory over him?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#86895: Sep 12th 2018 at 5:59:57 PM

[up]

I assume you mean because Vegeta is the reason Cell is perfect?

...Sure, Why Not?

It's Vegeta. He deserves it.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86896: Sep 12th 2018 at 6:05:56 PM

Does Vegeta get credit for his assist in Gohan's victory over Cell?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86897: Sep 12th 2018 at 6:07:19 PM

Only if everyone does

Or was everyone blasting Cell ineffectually an anime only thing?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86898: Sep 12th 2018 at 6:08:51 PM

It was an anime only thing. And Vegeta's assist was the only one that had an effect, even in the anime.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#86899: Sep 12th 2018 at 6:09:40 PM

It was his fault Gohan wasn't at full power to begin with.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86900: Sep 12th 2018 at 6:14:30 PM

So those cancel out? So Tenshinhan shouldn't get any assist credit for Goku's win over King Piccolo. Sure, Tenshinhan saved Goku from King Piccolo's blasts, but King Piccolo also took him hostage, which allowed King Piccolo to cripple almost all of Goku's limbs.


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