My headcanon about Gine is that she's one of the strongest Saiyans working a job on Planet Vegeta. Toriyama's statement about Upper Level Saiyans being genociders and Lower Level Saiyans being workers, and Upper/Lower Level is determined by Power Level, indicates to me that Gine was at least strong enough to be sent out to genocide planets, but she wasn't cut out for genocide and decided to work in the meat distribution plant.
I also like to think that Gine is nice... for a Saiyan. She's still totally fine with genocide, with no regrets or hang-ups about her species' way of life.
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I mean.
I dunno, I like Tsundere Saiyan men like Vegeta and Bardock being a thing.
Even if she's not Goku's mom, can she still be Bardock's mate?
I mean, there's a difference between living in a society and accepting that your society is The Way Things Are and actually slaughtering people yourself by hand.
Like. It's a whole thing with PTSD. A lot of people just can't handle some of the things they have to do in a military, any military. Even in a "just" war.
It's not like, realistically, Gine or any other Saiyan has anywhere else to go. It's the only life, the only planet and society they know. So there's no choice but to find a place in that society where you can be functional and happy.
I mean, even if you could convince all of the Saiyans to stop fighting, like. Why wouldn't Frieza come for them next? Up to that point, he employed them because they were useful. He destroyed them because they might become a threat.
Even peaceful Saiyans could still theoretically be a potential threat someday, given Frieza was operating off of legends of Super Saiyans. And they wouldn't be useful.
Edited by unnoun on Sep 6th 2018 at 8:51:44 AM
@unnoun The talk about Broly's devil line brings to mind the manga version of Kale. There, universe 6 is established as having a legend of a 'Legendary Saiyan' also known as the 'demonic Saiyan' who after awakening goes on a rampage until they self destruct.
It's clearly repurposing the Super Saiyan legend of u 7 since u 6 had never heard the term 'Super Saiyan', but it's interesting that it references a lot of the old ideas from the anime and fanon.
And yeah, demonic Saiyan. Seems to fit the bill.
Manga Kale also had her ki rising over time, but hit her limit and started fatiguing.
I'm curious if Movie Broly will reference this demonic Saiyan legend and have a reason why he doesn't just die from transforming.
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She can’t be married or any other form of a close, intimate relationship to Bardock.
Bardock being a good husband would mean he was a caring father when the Bardock special showed he never cared for either of his sons & only started to give a shit about Goku when he finally proved useful.
So she can be a one-night stand to him in them Saiyan orgies.
Edited by slimcoder on Sep 6th 2018 at 6:05:08 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."I mean, I like how Broly in his first movie, the best of the three (so far, I hope) has his "power overflowing" line and then has to fire energy blasts randomly to let it out.
And I like how much Broly's muscles look like they're ripping when he transforms. Like he's damaging himself.
Almost like he's getting this constant self-destructive perpetual zenkai thing going.
My only complaint as a scientist is that, even if I assume he's like everything about Saiyans run amok. He still needs fucking calories to fuel all of it, and we've never seen the dumb bastard eat until that fucking trailer.
Anyway, there were a bunch of explanations for what happened to the Saiyans before they settled on "frieza did it".
And Super confirms that the Saiyans had a home planet named Salad before Planet Vegeta.
The explanation that the Saiyans were destroyed for their wickedness by their god is. So similar to the way the original Super Saiyan God is described in Battle of Gods that I have to think it was some sort of callback or reference or reused idea.
At some point I think bring back the idea that the original Super Saiyan destroyed their home planet, and then throwing it all together could be really cool?
I like retcons that make it seem more like the actual process of history being distorted and becoming mythology? People forgetting which order events go in and all that.
I mean.
Again, that's not quite what Toriyama says?
Being in among all that, I suppose you could say that the pair of Bardock and Gine were those rare Saiyans who were joined by a bond other than for reproductive purposes.
Saiyans don’t have much of a concept of “family”.
I think the Bardock+Gine pair might have been more close-knit than any other Saiyan couple.
To the extent of being a couple at all rather than just "fuck and then leave".
But that doesn't actually mean Bardock gave a fuck about the kids?
Toriyama doesn't exclude Bardock (at least in those statements) from the notion that Saiyans aren't particularly close insofar as blood relationships and 'family' are concerned.
What's different about Bardock and Gine is their romantic bond. Not the family that follows it.
Granted, Dragon Ball Minus doesn't seem to follow from Toriyama's actual statements there.
Edited by unnoun on Sep 6th 2018 at 9:20:34 AM
It’s what’s better for the characters.
The important/fantastic part of Goku’s origin is how he was born practically unloved as the runt of the litter to a race of barbarians & so was abadaoned & expected to die when sent to Earth which is why it’s so special when he renounced his Saiyan heritage to prove he doesn’t care for his asshole species & family.
The Bardock special (which is where Bardock was written the best) showed Bardock as the proverbial Saiyan, violent, arrogant, some camaraderie with his squad, & that his relationship with his sons was very detached to exemplify that Saiyan’s lack a nesting instinct towards their children.
Adding Gine to that adds a very fluff element that ruins the entire purposely nonexistent relationship Goku has with his father & the Saiyan race as a whole.
Edited by slimcoder on Sep 6th 2018 at 6:20:49 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."I mean, Bardock vaguely liking Kakarot but being extremely dismissive of Raditz is weirdly funny to me.
And. Like, Goku is kinda dismissive of the Saiyans and his Saiyan heritage, but also not? Like. "I am a Saiyan from Earth" is something he says to Frieza with pride, giving Frieza deja vu to when he met Bardock.
Like, Goku's not entirely, 100% dismissive of the Saiyans. There's a nuance to it.
There is an interesting tragedy to the Bardock special I remember where he wishes he could have been there for Kakarot, and regrets being such a distant and detached Saiyan bastard.
And to me, the way to "fix" Gine is. Have her be as much of a detached parent as any other Saiyan.
Drop the kids off and send them to slaughter, for King and country. She may not have the stomach to be a "real Saiyan" but hopefully her spawn won't have that shameful weakness she can't overcome no matter how much she wants to.
She cares about her mate, and she doesn't enjoy killing because it upsets her. But she lives in a society where fighting and killing is everything, and so she's forced to believe that the problem is her, not the society.
Edited by unnoun on Sep 6th 2018 at 9:27:39 AM
Hell I’ll take it.
Anything to make her less of a gentle mother stereotype.
It’s like when One Piece introduced Sanji’s violent assassin family but had his mother be the kind, gentle noncombatant who’s responsible for why he’s such a good person.
As well as his sister being the only good one too who helped him escape & always hated participating in their siblings abuse of him.
Keep the women as evil as the men for Zeno’s sake.
Though Goku’s “I’m a Saiyan” speech to Frieza was more for Vegeta’s sake than anything else.
Edited by slimcoder on Sep 6th 2018 at 6:28:37 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."I mean. I do want her to be a good gentle Saiyan, and for the same to be true of Tarble, but.
Like, there's a thing where our culture and society shapes us, and we have to conform to it. Expectations and pressures and laws and stuff.
My picture of Gine is that she would take well to a more peaceful, Earth-like existence. Tranquility and not having to fight or send the kids to fight and all that.
But that's not the life she knows, and she doesn't even know that kind of life exists, doesn't even have the words or the context for it.
And, like. She's still certainly not a disney princess. No time for an "I Want" Song when there's hungry Saiyans and meat to distribute.
But even if she wants her mate to come stay with her and stop killing, and to have her sons with her and for them to not have to kill. She's already been shameful (unprideful? like, the word Vegeta brings up is pride, not honor, so) enough with her own failure to do her duty on a purging squad. It would be cruel to the people she cares about, and hurt them in the eyes of Saiyan culture and society, by dragging them down into weakness with her.
I can imagine Gine having a "gentle nature" and wishing she didn't, and thinking it's a curse, and hoping her sons don't have it as well.
tldr; gine needs therapy
Or a reincarnation into a better life after a good soul-washing.
Edited by unnoun on Sep 6th 2018 at 9:39:26 AM
There's only so much social progressivism you can expect/demand out of a Japanese author who started this series in the 80s and still controls most of the plot details. At some point, you just have to shrug your shoulders and say "I don't like it, but I'm not gonna waste my time complaining about it any longer". It's what I do. I try very hard nowadays to say my peace on a topic the first time through, then avoid any future arguments on the same topic unless there's something new being said or brought to the table.
On an unrelated note, Christopher Sabat really wanted a Majin Vegeta Funko Pop, so he got Funko to make one.
How ever did the Saiyans survive before they had the technology to abandon their children on other worlds?
Also literally nothing about the "shoot children into space, hope for the best" makes any amount of sense but I have made my peace with that sorta
Forever liveblogging the AvengersI agree that a more fleshed out Gine would be a really interesting character for all those same reasons, and I'm all for fleshing her out more. Besides, there was precedent for full-blooded gentle Saiyans with Tarble, and he was banished because he was gentle and weak and also of royal blood. I hope the Broly movie gives the Minus material enough time and care to flesh it out better than the original bonus chapter did.
Well, during his first fight with Goku Vegeta told Goku that they send weak babies to worlds like Earth as outcasts to die. And Gine apparently said the being an "infiltration baby" has a high mortality rate so...
If you care about keeping them alive it doesn't make sense, but evidently that wasn't the real purpose.
I mean, I read a story once about Gine in Heaven with Grandpa Gohan, and.
The most interesting thing about that fic was Gine's narration about how the Saiyan concept of hell was for not sinners or evildoers, but cowards and weaklings, with peace and tranquility.
And Gine was the only Saiyan in Other World's Heaven, and she was separated from all her friends and family.
...Until Goku showed up, because that was the kind of fic it was.
But in a way. The parts of the fic and the narrative without Goku and Gine meeting and interacting were stronger. To me. Better-written.
I mean, probably just because it reminded me of Paradise Lost. The mind can make a Heaven of hell and a hell of heaven.
And so to me, that's the best way to handle Gine. By which I mean the most interesting.
Being Good Sucks when you're meant to be Always Chaotic Evil.
To boil it down into the most crassly reductive, tropey way possible.
Edited by unnoun on Sep 6th 2018 at 10:00:54 AM
It amazes me how absurdly short the timescale is for the Boo Saga. Most of it takes place over the course of a mere two days.
Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!That's most arcs...especially since from the moment Z starts, they don't effectively show the passage of time.
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.While this is all true, it doesn't change the fact that, like, half of the Kai anime is covering the events of two really long days.
And I don't think we ever once see it become night.
Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!

Just don't make it Goku's mother.
Edited by slimcoder on Sep 6th 2018 at 5:43:26 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."