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Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#86526: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:43:40 PM

King Kai wasn't the father figure that Roshi was
Roshi was no more of a father figure than, say, Kami. Who I would actually say had a bigger impact on Goku's personality. I don't think Goku interacts with Roshi substantially even a single time after their meeting at the beginning of the Saiyan arc. If you wanted to pick anyone for that nebulous reason, it would be his adoptive father and first martial arts teacher, Gohan.
Anyway, The Wolf Trio dub voices have been announced.
Looks like Lavender is TFS Cooler/Gero. I always liked that dude's voice.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Aug 30th 2018 at 7:46:34 AM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#86527: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:47:35 PM

Roshi was no more of a father figure than, say, Kami.

If you watched OG Dragon Ball, you know that's not true.

When's the last time anyone gave a shit about what Roshi or Karin said?

Goku still asks both of them for advice, so.. Besides, you can make a case for King Kai without belittling Roahi and Karin.

If you wanted to pick anyone for that nebulous reason, it would be his adoptive father and first martial arts teacher, Gohan.

It's not "nebulous" when we're talking about martial art masters. Especially since in a lot of media martial art masters are treated like second fathers or the only father figure a martial artist knows.

And after Gohan died, Roshi filled that role for Goku.

Edited by Cortez on Aug 30th 2018 at 10:52:46 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86528: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:48:35 PM

Huh. Neither Cooler nor Gero sound anything like how Lavanda sounded. I'm curious to hear this take.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 30th 2018 at 7:48:55 AM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#86529: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:49:32 PM

Chris has pretty good range though. I imagine his Lavender might sound like his Moria.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86530: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:50:40 PM

Somehow, I forgot that he also voices dub Moria. Yeah, this'll be fine.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#86531: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:52:51 PM

If you watched OG Dragon Ball, you know that's not true.
I have. And he's not. He teaches Goku for about a year and then Goku runs off on his own. Goku displays no significant shifts in personality from the time he was Roshi's pupil and learns no useful techniques. Nor does he seem to care particularly more about Roshi than anyone else in his group.
Goku still asks both of them for advice
Roshi? When?

Edited by Kamiccolo on Aug 30th 2018 at 7:52:25 AM

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#86532: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:55:08 PM

If we are counting Super, then yes, because he kinds of do that there, even though he really shouldn't need to.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#86533: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:57:22 PM

Super's version of this relationship is an insult to both Roshi and Goku, so nah, I wasn't counting it.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#86534: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:58:59 PM

[up]×3

With respect, it doesn't sound like it since you are over simplifying Goku's time with Roshi and Roshi's significance in Goku's life.

[up]

No that's just hyperbole. And it does count, whether you like it or not.

Edited by Cortez on Aug 30th 2018 at 11:00:06 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86535: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:00:38 PM

Roshi is basically Goku's second father figure, after Gohan. Roshi taught him math, other academics, and the most basic principles of martial arts that Goku would follow for the rest of his life. Even after training with Korin, Roshi is still Goku's master whom he listens to for his training in preparation for the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai. There is no doubt in my mind that Goku values Roshi the most out of all of his masters.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 30th 2018 at 8:01:08 AM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#86536: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:02:14 PM

Yeah, there's no denying Roshi means a lot to Goku.

And during those Martial art tournaments in OG Dragon Ball, he always sounded like proud father watching Goku and Krillin's progress.

Edited by Cortez on Aug 30th 2018 at 11:05:52 AM

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#86537: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:05:38 PM

If we're only counting the time during OG Dragon Ball, then he gets best master by default. Saying he relies on Roshi during the 22nd Budokai means nothing when he's still relevant.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#86538: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:05:44 PM

You can value someone older who taught you stuff without thinking of them as a father figure.

Huh, never said that in relation to Dragon Ball without talking about Gohan before.

Edited by LSBK on Aug 30th 2018 at 10:05:55 AM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#86539: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:10:08 PM

Except Goku and Krillin clearly do view him as a father figure. And each other as brothers.

[up]×2

Still means a lot actually.

Edited by Cortez on Aug 30th 2018 at 11:10:47 AM

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#86540: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:10:51 PM

No that's just hyperbole
I don't think so. Goku being treated like an idiot who still has to learn from his old master and who still makes utterly rookie mistakes is an insult to his character of a "fighting genius." Roshi still getting to school Goku and getting a massive power-up to fight in the tournament is bad because he'd decided he was at his peak and that the next generation would carry on the mantle back in the Piccolo arc, telling his pupils that he has nothing more to teach them. The modern material isn't remotely in sync with his presentation in the original run.
And it does count, whether you like it or not.
Well no, it doesn't. Not unless whoever you're talking to actually wants it to count. This franchise has no canon policy. Never has. Probably never will.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Aug 30th 2018 at 8:10:37 AM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#86541: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:12:47 PM

Actually it does have a canon and you can't decide something doesn't count just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

And "i don't want it to count" isn't a good argument.

Edited by Cortez on Aug 30th 2018 at 11:13:44 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#86542: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:14:08 PM

The anime has its "canon", and the manga its own, but the two aren't interchangeable. And that's not even getting into the movies and specials and how they're referenced.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#86543: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:14:46 PM

Actually it does have a canon
Actually, no it doesn't. Seriously, look for a statement of Shueisha or Toriyama saying officially "this is the canon timeline." You won't find one.

No-one who officially writes or produces Dragon Ball - Toriyama down the line here to Shueisha, Toei, etc. - actually bothers to make any kind of statement about what "counts". Ever.

And "i don't want it to count" isn't a good argument.
Neither is "I want it to count."

Edited by Kamiccolo on Aug 30th 2018 at 8:15:38 AM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#86544: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:17:07 PM

It does, that you have a problem with it doesn't change that.

And you're the one using "I don't want it to count" as am argument, which isn't a good one as i said.

It just sounds like you don't want it to count because it doesn't fit with your argument.

And it also sounds like you don't "count" anything pre Z. Even though it's still part of the story.

Edited by Cortez on Aug 30th 2018 at 11:21:54 AM

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#86545: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:19:05 PM

It does, that you habe a problem with it does change that.
No it doesn't. Unless you can actually cite an official statement on the matter (which I know you can't, because such a thing doesn't exist) you're doing nothing more than saying your own opinion over and over.
And you're the one using "I don't want it to count" as am argument,
Well no, I don't actually need to "argue" anything. Because nothing officially does or doesn't count. That's just a fact. You are in fact making a positive statement that there is a canon. Which you have no evidence for, and could never find any evidence for.

An example of something with an official canon is Star Wars. Lucas came out and said outright what counted, what didn't, and in what order things overrode each other. Disney rebooted that and issued their own official canon policy. No one has ever done anything like that with Dragon Ball. Likely, no one ever will.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Aug 30th 2018 at 8:20:17 AM

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#86546: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:20:26 PM

Looking up to someone as a father figure should probably have something beyond martial arts advice. Does he look for Roshi when he needs advice on handling issues except for fighting or needs emotional support? Does he looks up to Roshi beyond his martial arts skills? Does he value Roshi's advice beyond his future teachers? Does he often reminisce of the time he spent as Roshi's pupil? Goku in general doesn't have much in terms of personal attachment towards anyone beyond being friends with them, so saying he thinks of Roshi as a father figure is kind of saying a lot.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#86547: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:21:41 PM

Well Goku does lack an attachement to any living thing.

For the most part.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#86548: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:23:37 PM

[up]x2

We already went over how Roshi taught they boys stuff outside Martial Arts.

[up]×3

You forget how people had no problem with the fact that the old films weren't canon.

But it again, it seems more like you don't want it to count because it doesn't help your argument.

Edited by Cortez on Aug 30th 2018 at 11:37:00 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#86549: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:28:47 PM

I won't deny that King Kai did have big impact on Goku.

While the Kaioken and Spirit Bomb were left in the wind, it is true that the training Goku did King Kai played a part in the eventual jump in Goku's Power Level (though Zenkai Bullshit did the rest).

And the help he continues to provide throughout the Saiyan, Frieza, Namek, Android and even Buu Arcs was very influential.

That being said, I do feel that saying Roshi gave Goku nothing is selling him short. Goku is still rocking the Kamehameha years later, all because Roshi showed him how to do it, and it was Roshi who instilled in Goku the value of always seeking to better himself and never resting on his laurels and assuming he was the biggest dog in the yard...which didn't stop said biggest dog from slapping the shit out of him anyway, but it was still a valuable lesson.

Korin, Popo and Kami's teachings were less influential, though the last two are the reason Goku can sense Ki...and maybe the flight technique as well. We never did find out how he learned it.

I'd say King Kai and Roshi are both in the top percentage of Ratatta 'GOOD MASTERS.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#86550: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:29:56 PM

[up][up]Not my point. I meant him thinking of Roshi as anything more than a cool mentor. By issues outside of fighting I sort of meant personal life issues, but then again he doesn't have much of those beyond Chi-Chi wanting him to have a job. I have no doubt that he cares about Roshi, but he doesn't come across as caring more about Roshi than any other mentor.

Edited by Ikedatakeshi on Aug 30th 2018 at 11:29:54 PM


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