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Mayaki Since: Aug, 2018
#86426: Aug 21st 2018 at 4:27:03 AM

I'm curious about the manga differences in the tournament. I hope Toyotaro will better solve a few things

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86427: Aug 21st 2018 at 12:40:05 PM

So, the chapter.

Gohan vs Kafla is mostly off-screen, and it looks like Kafla has a slight strength advantage while Gohan has a slight technique advantage, and Gohan is apparently growing stronger during the fight (specifically focusing on training his Human half, not his Saiyan half, which is interesting). Vegeta vs Toppo continues, and Toppo rips his shirt and powers up. Not sure if this is the manga's version of God Toppo, but if it is, it's disappointing. 17 and Dyspo apparently fight off-screen while Freeza rests.

Roshi does not have Ultra Instinct, but his fighting style is somewhat close to it. The manga is throwing power levels in the trash WAY harder than the anime ever did. Kahseral scans Roshi and says his Power Level is like dirt, but Roshi kicks his ass with ease with pure skill and knocks him out with the wind move he eliminated Yamcha with. Roshi then challenges Jiren, and there is no indication whatsoever that Jiren is holding back at all from the level he was at when Complete Blue Kaioken didn't work on him. Roshi is still able to dodge his attacks and fight back, with what is apparently pure, near god-like skill.

Goku then taps into Ultra Instinct "Omen" for approximately 4 seconds as he dodges Jiren's attack and then falls right out of it when he tries to throw a punch. I wouldn't be surprised if Ultra Instinct "Omen" is supposed to be as strong as base Goku, and Ultra Instinct itself just gives you such an absurd skill bonus that Power Levels just don't matter.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 21st 2018 at 12:43:28 PM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#86428: Aug 21st 2018 at 12:44:37 PM

The manga is throwing power levels in the trash WAY harder than the anime ever did.

One or two stupid things, even if they're really stupid, do not top the blatant disregard for consistency shown throughout the Super anime, and especially its version of the Tournament of Power.

Edited by LSBK on Aug 21st 2018 at 3:37:26 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86429: Aug 21st 2018 at 12:58:51 PM

There was like two inconsistent parts in the anime Tournament of Power, which were Kale's first fight and some of Ribrianne's fights. Also, I wasn't talking about inconsistency, I was talking about strength vs skill, and for all the anime used skill > strength in some scenes, the manga's usage of Roshi is so ridiculous that I'm not even upset.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 21st 2018 at 12:58:44 PM

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#86430: Aug 21st 2018 at 12:59:25 PM

I don't know. A lot of little inconsistencies can be handwaved away, but it's a lot harder to ignore a gigantic one. That being said Roshi vs Jiren crosses the line into "so dumb it's hilarious and I love it" territory.

Man, Kefla got done so dirty in this chapter.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86431: Aug 21st 2018 at 1:10:12 PM

I wonder if Gohan getting almost as strong as MSSB Goku by focusing on training his Human half over his Saiyan half is supposed to be some kind of justification for Roshi being super strong, and a way in for Krillin and Tenshinhan getting super strong in the future.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#86432: Aug 21st 2018 at 1:35:27 PM

So its stupider than Krillin beating Gohan and being able to match SSB?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#86433: Aug 21st 2018 at 1:44:28 PM

It's all kinda stupid. I'm sick of trying to claim one is worse than the other due to personal preference.

I blame Power Levels.

One Strip! One Strip!
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#86434: Aug 21st 2018 at 2:02:41 PM

I just go with "Super is dumb in general" and leave it at that. Said dumbness also doesn't really bother me.

This song needs more love.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#86435: Aug 21st 2018 at 2:09:40 PM

Krillin beat Gohan with a ring out and was shown to be way weaker than SSB.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#86436: Aug 21st 2018 at 2:12:35 PM

Most people feel that Krillin shouldn't even have been able to do that.

Hard Power Levels and all that. Gohan should have been faster and just taken Krillin out before he could do anything.

One Strip! One Strip!
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#86437: Aug 21st 2018 at 2:21:00 PM

Martial Arts are all about comparing numbers, you see. [lol]

You are not alone.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#86438: Aug 21st 2018 at 2:39:51 PM

I look at it like this: if you're talking about what's more entertaining to look at, then the Super anime has the Super manga beat, but if you're talking about internal consistency and basic logic, it's the other way around.

Not that this has to be an either or, I'm sure we all agree that works can both consistently follow their own established internal logic while still being interesting to look at. That both phases of Super tend to often fail in one of those departments is a condemnation of both of them.

That being said, I'd give the manga version more slack than the anime, just because it seems like more genuine effort is being put into it. So much about the Super anime feels like They Just Didn't Care because they knew that anything with Dragon Ball in the name would sell like hotcakes regardless of actual quality.

Edited by LSBK on Aug 21st 2018 at 10:22:21 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#86439: Aug 21st 2018 at 3:00:05 PM

I look at it like this: if you're talking about what's more entertaining to look at, then the Super anime has the Super manga beat

There are those who'd disagree with that (and rightfully so), but I can see that.

One Strip! One Strip!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#86440: Aug 21st 2018 at 4:09:11 PM

So I get what Toyotaro is going for but I guess my thing is the Power Creep of this series got so absurd that it kind of fell flat for me.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#86441: Aug 21st 2018 at 4:24:32 PM

[up]

Yeah. Roshi not getting immediately clobbered by Kahseral is against everything we've seen previously.

It's way too late in this series to pretend that Power Levels don't matter.

That being said, having finally properly read the chapter...I kinda liked how it went down.

Roshi simply reminding Goku of what all his teachers have tried to imprint upon him is a nice moment to me.

Rather than preferring the anime version like I did before, I now think a combination of them works better.

Goku triggers it through outside means, but it's Roshi's words that helps him find the state of mind to fully activate it.

This is why it would have been better to let one version get itself out first, rather than both just doing what they want.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86442: Aug 21st 2018 at 4:31:11 PM

That being said, I'd give the manga version more slack than the anime, just because it seems like more genuine effort is being put into it. So much about the Super anime feels like They Just Didn't Care because they knew that anything with Dragon Ball in the name would sale like hotcakes regardless of actual quality. 

Really? Obviously, the anime has off episodes, but I've felt like Toyotaro has been half-assing his work and rushing through this arc because he doesn't really care about it, while most of the anime episodes felt much more thought out to me. Like, most of the anime's individual episodes tried to have their own theme and narrative throughline and story structure, while the individual manga chapters are mostly just things happening.

Also, Toyotaro's art has really taken a downturn this arc while the anime noticeably stepped up their production values for this arc. Again, the anime has bad episodes, but the best animated episodes of this arc are so much better than the best chapter art of this arc that it's like night and day.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 21st 2018 at 4:33:38 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#86443: Aug 21st 2018 at 4:34:04 PM

[up]Yeah, the anime tried to have its own plot lines, but those plot lines quite often made no sense and relied on nostalgia and/or trying to milk old emotional moments without really understanding why those moments were effective and well done in the first place. That's my take on it, anyway.

Edited by LSBK on Aug 21st 2018 at 8:45:29 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#86444: Aug 21st 2018 at 4:51:04 PM

So, they're both bad?

Yeah, sounds right.

One Strip! One Strip!
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#86445: Aug 21st 2018 at 6:39:41 PM

The anime felt like it was spinning its wheels for the sake of padding. I genuinely enjoy the comparatively snappy pace of the manga.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#86446: Aug 21st 2018 at 6:44:12 PM

I don't know man. I admit, it is nice to not be wasting time, but I'd have also liked to see more of Gohan vs Kefla.

I get it. Krillin and Tien aren't relevant, shouldn't have been in this tournament and them getting instantly ringed out makes sense, but there are some fights that would probaly have been interesting to see. Instead, a lot of people are getting tossed out in seconds, and you kinda wonder why they even exist then.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#86447: Aug 21st 2018 at 6:55:58 PM

They exist because there has to be 80 participants instead of something more manageable.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#86448: Aug 21st 2018 at 7:00:51 PM

I understand that a monthly manga can't devote the time to give nearly every fighter screentime like the anime was able to, but when it's rushing through even the "big" fights like Gohan vs Kefla there is something wrong.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#86449: Aug 21st 2018 at 7:02:19 PM

Well, props to Toriyama for trying something different, but yeah, he didn't think this out too well.

I mean, it comes down to what it always comes down to: Goku's fight is the only fight that's treated as important, with others not even being seen as a warm up.

Toyotarou is following that too. I was really looking forward to a wide variety of fighters with a crazy bunch of techniques, and some different kinds of fights, but so much for that.

Not to say the anime did any better, as all those crazy techniques didn't mean much in the end.

One Strip! One Strip!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#86450: Aug 21st 2018 at 8:19:15 PM

Tangentially related to Dragon Ball, Vegeta and a Namek stage were announced for Jump Force:


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