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ZeroDozer Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!! from Santo André, SP, Brazil Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!!
#86251: Aug 17th 2018 at 8:42:12 PM

I must admit this is so fucking epic.

LE PAGE TOPPER

Edited by ZeroDozer on Aug 17th 2018 at 12:45:07 PM

Growing up, it's like a civil war, don't turn away, it's something you can't ignore...
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#86252: Aug 17th 2018 at 8:49:58 PM

Goku instantly learning it from Roshi also is a callback to Goku learning the Kamehameha the same way.

That said, it's still fucking dumb and I don't wanna hear anyone claim the Anime or Manga are better at power scaling anymore after this.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#86253: Aug 17th 2018 at 8:53:12 PM

Is he actually using it or is it a reference to that Drunken Boxing move from OG...?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#86254: Aug 17th 2018 at 8:53:30 PM

Can't they be worse in different ways?

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#86255: Aug 17th 2018 at 8:54:16 PM

It's still power scaling...so it can't exactly be that different.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#86256: Aug 17th 2018 at 9:03:09 PM

As it turns out, the next chapter of the Super manga retcons Roshi into being able to turn Super Saiyan and Goku learned it by watching him. Same for the Spirit Bomb oddly enough.

This song needs more love.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86257: Aug 17th 2018 at 9:11:45 PM

We never suspected because of his bald.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#86258: Aug 17th 2018 at 9:23:35 PM

How does looking at someone fighting without thinking teach you to do the same? That makes absolutely no sense, certainly less than the transformation in the anime. I mean they are both shitshows, but man.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86259: Aug 17th 2018 at 9:26:09 PM

Roshi having Ultra Instinct is some fucking insane, glorious bullshit.

If Goku just seeing someone do it should've given him Ultra Instinct, than he should've realized it back when he was sparring with Whis in Res 'F'.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#86260: Aug 17th 2018 at 9:34:49 PM

This is the dumbest shit in the world and I love it so much.

We never suspected because of his bald.

Roshi has gone even further beyond Blanco and achieved Roshi Calvo.

Silly comic about recent events.

Edited by Moth13 on Aug 17th 2018 at 12:34:23 PM

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#86261: Aug 17th 2018 at 9:42:46 PM

Aw sweet, that still gets updated.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#86262: Aug 17th 2018 at 9:46:48 PM

tfw Roshi's beard isn't white because of age.

He had UI all along.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#86263: Aug 17th 2018 at 10:07:19 PM

@Yakuzu This isn't power scaling though, so I see no reason

And yeah, characters learn from watching each other all the damn time:

Goku with the Kamehameha
Kuririn with the Kamehameha
Ten with the Kamehameha
Ten with the Mafuba
Goku with the Solar Flare
Vegeta with the Kienzan
Vegeta with ki sensing & controlling battle power
Kuririn with the Solar Flare
(Super) Gohan with the Solar Flare
(maybe) Freeza with Kienzan
Cell with Instant Transmission
Boo with Kamehameha and Kai Kai
Goku with the Kienzan
The difference with UI is that it's difficult to achieve, unlike most of the above examples (IT was also difficult to learn). But I doubt Goku is going to have perfect UI right away.

That makes absolutely no sense, certainly less than the transformation in the anime.

How can it make less sense than the medium that gives no reason for it?

Edited by Saiga on Aug 18th 2018 at 3:08:15 AM

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#86264: Aug 17th 2018 at 10:30:11 PM

It's just not the same without "KA-KA-KA-KA-KACHIDAZE!!!!!" blasting in the background. tongue

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#86265: Aug 17th 2018 at 10:35:21 PM

The music really did help sell UI.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#86266: Aug 17th 2018 at 10:37:56 PM

Yes there is precedent for learning things by sight basically instantly. Those are all moves/techniques/abilities. How do you look at someone who is reacting and moving without thought and then go oh so that is how you get your body to move without thinking.

In the anime Goku basically died in a black hole which pushed him to a new form in order to survive. He was unconscious each time Omen was triggered. Almost as if his body was moving on *gasp* instinct. When he uses the full version he stops and takes a deep breath, clearly preparing to clear his mind. Whether you think it is a good or bad explanation it was explained. Whis literally exposited about it several times.

Edited by Jedi1113 on Aug 17th 2018 at 1:42:26 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86267: Aug 17th 2018 at 11:22:56 PM

Also, again, if all Goku needed to learn Ultra Instinct was to watch someone do it, he would've had Ultra Instinct back in Resurrection 'F' from training with Whis. Also, there's absolutely no justification whatsoever for Roshi having Ultra Instinct. None. It's indefensible and goes full parody. You can appreciate it on an ironic level, but trying to claim that it makes any sort of sense makes you look like an idiot.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 17th 2018 at 11:22:58 AM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#86268: Aug 17th 2018 at 11:46:13 PM

[up][up] UI is introduced as a technique, and its users were never unconscious. So yeah, it's possible that watching it in action would help someone understand as with any other technique. Also, Goku was only unconscious the first time he used UI, so that's incorrect. And no, that explanation only came for full UI, not Omen where he just appears with it after disappearing in the black hole.

[up] That's a flawed comparison. The point isn't that Goku could learn UI from anyone doing it, since he saw Beerus do it earlier in the arc. Seeing Roshi do it and the inspiration is the final push for him (it's also likely that he's having a similar 'pushed to his limits' moment to the anime as well). This clearly isn't being portrayed as something that is easy or simple to do, but a breakthrough for him. So your argument of criticizing the manga for making it easy doesn't really hold weight there.

As for Roshi having UI: it's totally possible the way UI was originally portrayed. I dislike it, but from what we were told it's a skill that is really difficult to learn. The fact that Roshi has been able to

It doesn't require any specific power level or connection to the gods that Roshi doesn't have. If Roshi turns out to have had it back when he was active? That's nonsense. If that's something he discovered in his own training since? Yeah, that could work. Humans discovered independently how to manipulate ki, control battle power, sense ki, fly...

My issue is portraying Roshi as more skilled than the other characters, when he really shouldn't be. However, that can be avoided if Roshi has made use of his considerable downtime to work on this. And, realistically speaking, succeeding in one area does not make you better than everyone who might have struggled with it. It won't mean Roshi is more skilled than the Gods for having one skill over them.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#86269: Aug 18th 2018 at 12:10:12 AM

Super Dragon Ball Heroes news from this month's V-Jump!

  • They finally revealed who the number 1 spot was... it's UI Goku
  • Hatchiyack's new form seems to be called "Super Amplified Grudge"
  • Majin Ozotto is finally playable
  • Cumber becomes a Super Oozaru
  • Elder Kai becomes playable
  • Prison Planet Trunks goes Super Saiyan 3 for some reason
  • I honestly don't know what form Goku is in, it looks like SSB but with a darker, shinier aura...

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#86270: Aug 18th 2018 at 12:11:03 AM

It's difficult for warriors who train under the greatest warriors in the universe for possibly million of years to master Ultra Instinct. Not all of them are Beerus, who sleep for most of the time, yet somehow despite having someone who actually knows the technique teaching it, a random old man who spends most of his time laying in his home probably watching porn figured out this technique all on his own.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#86271: Aug 18th 2018 at 12:20:21 AM

Sure. But that millions of years can't amount to too much or our protagonists would never be relevant next to them.

Shit, Kaio was a God and it'd really suck for the series if no-one could surpass him.

[up][up] That's a really lackluster UI Goku card, you can hardly see anything!

Edited by Saiga on Aug 19th 2018 at 5:22:35 AM

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#86272: Aug 18th 2018 at 12:33:44 AM

The protagonist is Goku, not Roshi. He's a minor character at best. He getting such a power-up despite not being as talented, hard-working nor determined as Goku, trained for a fraction of the time of any of the Saiyans in between the end of the Buu saga and Super, under zero teachers, with no idea such a technique exist, not having the equipment or facilities necessary to do so, having a body way past his physical prime and never mentioned it until this point. A lot of BS for someone to swallow.

Edit: If he somehow managed to discover a super special training method off-screen, then the anime can also be forgiven for its power scaling issue because of the sudden difference in power/skill.

Edited by Ikedatakeshi on Aug 19th 2018 at 3:37:01 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#86273: Aug 18th 2018 at 12:41:56 AM

But nobody wanted Karrot to gain this ability.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#86274: Aug 18th 2018 at 12:44:28 AM

That wasn't my argument.

If Roshi can't learn a techinque because the Gods didn't with millions of years to do so, logically that restriction would apply to Goku as well. Goku's better than Roshi but he doesn't have millions of years up his sleeve.

And you've assumed he's trained for a fraction of the time as the Saiyans, why? We don't know what he's been up to. If he explains that he's been using his time to train specifically for this, then it makes sense when Goku and Vegeta have been dealing with other shit. We know from the start of this arc that Goku wasn't training much, he'd gone back to farming. Hard working my ass.

Even when they were training, they'd been focusing on stuff like perfecting Super Saiyan Blue.

What facilities/equipment are necessary to train UI specifically? If this was Roshi getting a massive power boost from offscreen training, I'd agree. But that's not what UI is. It's a different kettle of fish.

This is a totally different thing from the anime regularly fudging power gaps or misinterpreting how skill works in Dragon Ball. Like, I'm not even saying it's better or worse, they're just too different issues to be directly contrasted like that.

Edited by Saiga on Aug 19th 2018 at 5:46:41 AM

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#86275: Aug 18th 2018 at 1:08:35 AM

Because he never displays any of this in Z? Because even imperfect ultra instinct can be very useful as displayed by Beerus? Logically this means he gained it from after Buu saga to the start of Top. He can't train specifically for something he doesn't know exist, so he has to be doing generic training. Unless he suddenly has an epiphany during that time period and figured that he should train himself to react automatically. And while by facilities I meant better facilities in general, but even a better sparing partner would probably be better than whatever Roshi has.


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