Just caught up with the shit here and I am like...
As I don't read the manga and the To P part of the anime is coming to Brazil next week (HOPEFULLY), I need to make some questions about the manga:
> Has Gohan caught up with normal SSB Goku like in the anime?
> ROSHI HAS ULTRA INSTINCT? REALLY?
Edited by ZeroDozer on Aug 17th 2018 at 6:58:51 AM
Growing up, it's like a civil war, don't turn away, it's something you can't ignore...Wow, these spoilers are crazy.
it's interesting that Kale's form is now considered different to SS 1. Earlier chapters made it sound like it is SS 1 with properties unique to her, rather than a separate form.
as for Gohan beating Kafla not making sense: I think people overstated Kale and Kafla's strength. When Goku stepped in to save Freeza, Freeza said that he could take her if he fought seriously. That doesn't mean Freeza was right, but he wasn't going all out yet so we can't be certain Kale is stronger than Freeza's full power. And when Kale was getting beaten by the Pride Troopers, it was noted that they weren't super strong, but Kale had hit her limit and was able to be brought down by their teamwork. Kafla was a better fighter than Kale, so she was easily able to overpower them. That doesn't make her much stronger than someone much stronger than Golden Freeza.
Roshi having Ultra Instinct - that's bannana pants crazy. It also brings up this really annoying idea that UI instantly makes anyone beyond "God" tier, which is ridiculous and doesn't make sense the way it is portrayed elsewhere. Unless it's made clear that Jiren is trying to use an appropriate amount of strength to not kill him and the UI surprises him.
this is one way that Roshi being better than the other humans can make sense, at least. Not any better than that level, though. And Goku actually 'learning' UI rather than spontaneously discovering it is something I've wanted this whole time, so I hope that part is handled well.
![]()
![]()
![]()
I'm guessing that this is something he learned recently, not something we're supposed to think he has had all along.
Edited by Saiga on Aug 17th 2018 at 8:08:29 PM
Ultra Instinct is a state of mind, and Roshi has been alive for a while. It's crazy as fuck, but it's not unfounded either that hes attained a lesser version of it.
But holy shit, jesus lol.
Also As Saiga said, Jiren is holding back a ton of power so to not kill Roshi, which makes his movements easy to dodge according to him. Jiren eliminates him quickly once hes fed up.
Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Aug 17th 2018 at 6:40:53 AM
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Just a note, I got nothing against UI Roshi. I just wanted to know if that was really true.
Also, I didn't get my answer about Gohan's current power level in the manga.
Growing up, it's like a civil war, don't turn away, it's something you can't ignore...Ok fine.
It's still pretty crazy considering it supposed to be a level that even Gods can't master. Roshi achieving any form of it is nuts, but there we are. Does this mean that we'll lose Goku triggering it via absorbing the Spirit Bomb? I liked that.
One Strip! One Strip!@Yakuzu that's good to know.
I can actually buy that the difference in strength is so great that holding back perfectly (enough to win but not enough to risk serious injury) is difficult for Jiren. It's a bit silly, because the only time we've really seen this is with 18 and the punching machine, the others didn't show much difficulty with it.
![]()
I didn't. It's recycling earlier ideas and doesn't really make any sense
Edited by Saiga on Aug 17th 2018 at 9:23:07 PM
x3: Yes. Instead
◊, a weakened Goku, after being beaten up by Jiren multiple times
, is motivated by Roshi's actions after the old man was rung out. Thus, he unlocks Ultra Instinct.
Who knew that the Drunken Fist technique was the prototype for Ultra Instinct? Also, glad to see that Toyotaro is taking advantage of another "anime-only" addition with -Omen-.
Pretty much.
Edited by XMenMutant22 on Aug 17th 2018 at 9:43:23 AM
Thanks for ignoring me. I did my research and got my answers already.
Growing up, it's like a civil war, don't turn away, it's something you can't ignore...In that case, you could just have said that, then I wouldn't have to apologize for my last comment.
That said, Seems that Gohan has indeed made huge progress in the manga, to the point Vegeta got proud of him. But yeah, we'll need to wait for the Dyspo fight to see how that will unfold.
Edited by ZeroDozer on Aug 17th 2018 at 9:43:12 AM
Growing up, it's like a civil war, don't turn away, it's something you can't ignore...And Goku just suddenly being able to do it just because Roshi got taken out (and apparently because Roshi showed it to him, which makes even less sense considering how hard it's supposed to be) makes more sense?
...Meh. Fine, we both have our preferences, so no use arguing about it. I prefer the anime, probably because I'm a Nostalgia whore ....no, no I was right the first time I guess.
Edited by HandsomeRob on Aug 17th 2018 at 7:40:29 AM
One Strip! One Strip!Well, yeah. At least it's theme of being taught, and showing that someone else can do it. Being able to copy someone using it in action makes way more sense than a Spirit Bomb triggering it.
Neither are ideal, because this is something that Goku should have been working on since Whis first explained it to him. I would have liked to see Goku using some rudimentary stages of a non-transformation UI before this kind of breakthrough. But at least Roshi using it here shows that the non-transformation version IS still around.
I wonder if we'll actually get an explanation why UI triggers a transformation in Goku here.

So Roshi knows a technique that even Gods of Destruction find difficult to master... to bad it literally never helped him in the past ever.