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Canonically Gohand is a sadist...
His fans like dat side of him more than the nerdy side...
Edited by randomness4 on Jul 24th 2018 at 4:27:17 AM
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.He definitively doesn't receive it from his father, the most amount rage shown was when Kriller died...
And only when he died...
However Son Son does it for all his friends...
Edited by randomness4 on Jul 24th 2018 at 4:30:26 AM
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.It doesn't matter how much, because his training method is never said to be as effective as everyone elses.
Edited by randomness4 on Jul 24th 2018 at 4:34:01 AM
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.I think a large part of the point is that there's nothing really indicating Tien ever closed the gap/Krillin didn't continue to get stronger.
Again, the Cell example doesn't prove anything because you can't say definitively Krillin couldn't do the same, and there's not really any direct comparisons you can make.
But also that. Tien just seem to train in matter that stopped being effective a long time ago, because he was too stubborn to do things different than he had always done.
Edited by LSBK on Jul 24th 2018 at 6:35:01 AM
"Again, the Cell example doesn't prove anything because you can't say definitively Krillin couldn't do the same, and there's not really any direct comparisons you can make."
When it comes to a debate the burden of proof falls upon the person trying to prove something. In this case "proving" that Krillin is stronger than Tien by saying "there's nothing to say that he couldn't do that" is extremely dodgy.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"But the burden of proof is on you though. The story and Toriyama has said he's stronger, it's up to you to prove that the story and the creator are wrong. So...good luck with that.
Look, if you want to argue it doesn't make sense for Krillin to be stronger, I could see it. I wouldn't necessarily agree, and I'm sure others would argue with you, but whatever. But claiming the story is siding with you is just flat-out wrong.
Toriyama's said some other very questionable things in the past, but if you want to go "Krillin is more powerful because the author specifically said so" then that's fine.
But if you just go by the manga, with The Death Of The Author in effect, Tien is stronger.
First of all, feats > statements (unless the statements are by the narrator, and Yamcha is not the narrator).
Tien's feats are better. The statement that Krillin is the strongest human is said by Yamcha off the cuff to Krillin's baby daughter having not seen Tien in 7 years. It's far from an ironclad reason to believe that Krillin is the strongest human.
Edited by Sigilbreaker26 on Jul 24th 2018 at 11:48:09 AM
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
The only burden of proof you have is, as I said, one moment that didn't actually cause any sort of actual damage to it's intended target. And if your argument is that Krillin didn't do anything of a similar feat, that makes the whole argument pointless. You can't judge characters for what they didn't do to claim something as a fact.
So there's no real definitive that Krillin is weaker than Tien. Because I can easily say Krillin could have actually did more than Tien did to Cell if he was put into a similar position.
Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Jul 24th 2018 at 7:48:41 AM
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.No, actually Yamcha's reassurance was "Your daddy is the strongest man in the world!" which he then clarifies basically under his breath with "...who is human/Earthling".
One is for Marron, the other is for the readers, in both instances the intent is clear.
Edited by LSBK on Jul 24th 2018 at 6:56:58 AM
At this point I am literally repeating myself.
"The only burden of proof you have is, as I said, one moment that didn't actually cause any sort of actual damage to it's intended target."
" Raditz was able to block a ki attack that was only 200 power level below his, which means whatever Tien was able to rev the Kikoho up to it was within spitting distance of Semi-Perfect Cell even if it was only able to push him down and scuff him up."
"And if your argument is that Krillin didn't do anything of a similar feat, that makes the whole argument pointless. You can't judge characters for what they didn't do to claim something as a fact."
The burden of proof in this instance is not on me. Can Freeza do the Kamehameha? We have never seen him do it. It's not a Goku only move. But if someone asked "can Freeza do the Kamehameha" we would say "no" (possibly with the addendum "but he might be able to learn it") because he's never done it.
Edited by Sigilbreaker26 on Jul 24th 2018 at 11:52:53 AM
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Honestly, I was gonna say some stuff on this. Copy and paste some quotes, but we've had this argument already.
Vegeta's an ass, but he's good at his job of experiencing The Worf Effect. It's because he's allowed to rise up that his falls are effective...unlike most other characters.
Tien has some cool techniques, and got two good fights (both against Goku) but he's not much in the grand scheme of things and people need to accept that. You can like him because of said cool techniques (I'd say he's got some of the more out there and interesting ones), but don't try and make him into something he isn't.
His moment against Cell was good. It was. I know others are sick of the series trying to hype him up in the bestest thing ever, but at that point, he did more against Cell than anyone (even Piccolo, who could have killed Cell if he hadn't botched it and lost him). Yes, it ended up amounting to nothing, like so many actions in the series not taken by Goku, but that's through no fault of his own, and I don't like people going out of their way to downplay it just to spite overzealous fans.
Spite them, not him! YOU HEAR ME! SPITE THEM!
...I guess that's it. Got distracted by real life and lost whatever train I thought I might have.
So, final thoughts:
- Yamcha rules.
- Kaioken is cooler than Super Saiyan
- Handsome Rob is a broken record.
- #De-pope Saiga (Yeah, he didn't do anything, but I haven't made that joke in a long time...probably because it's dumb).
And that's my 1 cents worth of opinions.
Now lets talk about cool stuff.
One Strip! One Strip!Wasn't the whole point of the Tien "vs" cell scene that Tien was way out of his league but managed to contribute anyway? That's not a display of physical strength, it's a display of mental/emotional strength. Best you can claim from that scene is Tien is braver than Krillin. Actually, I'm more surprised that you aren't using stuff from the buu saga considering Krillin had stopped training by that point and Tien did... something, when super buu showed up having never stopped training. In that instance he was probably the strongest human, if Krillins power level had dropped as much as Gohans did.
The funny thing is is that there's probably a Daizenshu out there with some Cell Saga stats that put Krillin above Tien (I've looked but can't find it) but people are more concerned with putting forth patently bad logic arguments.
I'm honestly shocked that no one's even brought up the Destructo Disk at all since tagging second form Freeza with it is easily Krillin's best feat.
Edited by Sigilbreaker26 on Jul 24th 2018 at 12:00:04 PM
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Doesn't that go all around?
Can't leave people out.
Edited by randomness4 on Jul 24th 2018 at 4:57:53 AM
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.You're still making an argument based on a fallacy though. Your argument is basically boiling down to "Tien did something Krillin didn't do, so therefore Tien is stronger". This ignores factors like how do you know, with absolute certainty, that Krillin couldn't do a similar feat?
And if your answer is "I don't know", then congrats, you've realized the problem with your argument. But guess, there's no stated reference saying Tien is stronger than Krillin, however there is a stated reference for Krillin being stronger, the aforementioned Yamcha statement and the author himself :V
The funny thing that I don't care that much which one is stronger, but I see this argument all of the time and nobody realizes how bad it is, even when its pointed out right in front of them.
Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Jul 24th 2018 at 8:04:22 AM
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Well, Krillin goes up against dudes way more powerful than him almost all the time. Though you are right that it was pretty brave. Tien didn't want to sit around like a bitch, and he didn't.
But like I said, this conversation is just going in circles. Time for me to pull the rug out from everyone.
If Toriyama had let everyone fight with weapons (instead of breaking them all the time) besides the obvious answer of Goku using the Nyoi-bo / Power Pole, and a Sword for Yamcha and Trunks, what weapons would you give them?
One Strip! One Strip!Also, for the Kikoho V Super Buu thing, it was just a regular Ki blast and we don't know how much force Super Buu put into it (he was only aiming at Dende and Mr. Satan). So it's largely useless as a feat because it could be anything from no stronger than in the Cell Saga to an insanely good feat. Whereas the Cell feat is actually fairly quantifiable - the fact that it did little visible damage actually lets us ballpark it better.
Vegeta - Battleaxe
Piccolo - Scythe
Krillin - Staff
Tien - Spear
Edited by Sigilbreaker26 on Jul 24th 2018 at 12:07:35 PM
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"To make one final statement about this; for all we know, Tien could be stronger. The main point here is that we only have Toriyama's word to go on and vague feats from both characters. The funny part is that Tien's moment against Cell isn't even about how "powerful" he is, its more about stalling for time. There's no real definitive proof that one is stronger than the other, and it ultimately doesn't matter anyway, because the main point is that they're both wholly outclassed by the characters who can actually affect the plot in a meaningful way at this point in the franchise.
In short, which one is stronger doesn't matter because they both suck and they will always suck and nothing will change that they suck.
Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Jul 24th 2018 at 8:11:28 AM
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Suck, suck, suck, suck, suck.
All DB characters are in the suck zone.
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

I've never really cared much about which of them is strongest, but Krillin actually being stronger has been said in the story, and there's nothing to contradict it.
And the Tien's thing against Cell doesn't count. While (debatably) a nice moment, you have no reason to claim Krillin couldn't have done something similar (besides not knowing a similar technique, I guess).
This is reminding me of that discussion of "Maybe Frieza had more destructive power than the androids" that was from awhile back. No, he didn't, because that wouldn't make any sense. You shouldn't have to actually see the androids blow up a planet or something to believe they can, because the series has always been pretty consistent about things like that.