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Mega_zxa Since: Mar, 2015
#85151: Jul 17th 2018 at 8:29:08 AM

I liked most of the arcs but I felt that there were some pretty big missed opportunities, and there were also points where it seemed like they had put jokes above making a good story The Zamasu Arc is a big contender for this.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#85152: Jul 17th 2018 at 8:41:27 AM

One change I would make is doing more with Godly Super Saiyan, that yellow-haired form Goku used against Beerus that is an incomplete Super Saiyan Blue. Have Goku and Vegeta use it while sparring before they master it and discover Super Saiyan Blue. Have Goku Black use it to get yellow-haired Black fighting Blue Vegeta before Black goes Rose. Have it replace Super Saiyan Rage, with the explanation that Trunks can do it because of unconscious Godly Ki he has from training with Future Kaio.

Another, vaguely related thing I would change is having Trunks unlock Godly Super Saiyan 2 to fight Black, which surprises Vegeta and inspires him to unlock Super Saiyan Blue 2, which is what he uses to kick Black's ass after training in the Time Chamber.

In my mind, Super is already good, but it could use a bit more polish. It feels like a beta version of what it could be, and it just needs a little more cohesiveness and consistency between its parts.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#85153: Jul 17th 2018 at 8:45:03 AM

I'd put in an episode where Goten, Trunks and Marron discover Cell Jrs living on 17's island.

Edited by Zeromaeus on Jul 17th 2018 at 11:44:52 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#85154: Jul 17th 2018 at 9:54:57 AM

Super's main issues is that it's so obviously a cash grab that hinges on a lot of people's nostalgia for the old series.

That's not a bad thing since Super has been an overwhelming success despite the issues, but you get the feeling Toei and Toriyama just didn't care enough a lot of the time.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#85155: Jul 17th 2018 at 9:59:22 AM

I admit, there were a lot of moments in Super I thought were fun, even if I found the overall quality to be lacking.

I think part of the issue is that Super (and a lot of people) didn't get how to use nostalgia right. Nostalgia is not an inherently bad thing; done right it can enhance an experience one would already find pleasurable. But Super relied too heavily on the (largely correct, admittedly) assumption that people would buy into anything it did because Dragon Ball, and so they didn't really have to bother trying to make things make sense for the world.

Admittedly, part of that just seems to be that Toriyama himself has forgotten a lot of stuff that he's written, but, like, you have people go over the old stuff to make it work better with the new stuff. Even try and fix/explain some legit plot-holes and inconsistencies with old things, instead of making a new ones.

Edited by LSBK on Jul 17th 2018 at 12:00:24 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#85156: Jul 17th 2018 at 10:00:47 AM

Which one do you think cares the least?

I think it's safe to say Toei is more focused on the money. Toriyama just didn't want Dragon Ball Evolution to be how his creation was viewed in the public eye.

Two random questions:

1) Are there any concepts you wish were introduced in different ways in the series? Like they showed up earlier or something like that?

and 2) Are there any techniques or concepts you wish would get combined together?

The first one for me is Ultra Instinct (though obviously without the God connection, cause the idea of fighting entirely on instinct with your body moving independently of your mind is a concept that could have led to some interesting fights at some earlier points in the series.

As for the second one, I'd have loved to combined U I with Kaioken (though considering the flaws of both, that would likely lead to death unless those flaws were massively mitigated...which tends to not ever happen in dragon ball).

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#85157: Jul 17th 2018 at 10:54:43 AM

I really wish Super Saiyan Blue had a better introduction. It's the primary transformation nowadays, but its treated with such a lackadacial attitude, it's treated like an afterthought mostly.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#85158: Jul 17th 2018 at 11:07:57 AM

Hell, I wish Transformations hadn't become so...centralizing.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#85159: Jul 17th 2018 at 11:21:38 AM

I dunno, that choir song that accompanies SSB never fails to give me chills. The most memorable instance of that for me was when Vegeta went SSB against Cabba. It didn't have the strongest initial introduction, but every time they build up with that choir I just have the biggest smile on my face.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#85160: Jul 17th 2018 at 11:28:10 AM

The best Super Saiyan Blue transformation is the one in the Tournament of Power prelims where all the gods start freaking out over it. Made it seem like a big deal.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#85161: Jul 17th 2018 at 11:56:13 AM

That is a really good one. As is Vegeta breaking out of the Mafuba jar.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#85162: Jul 17th 2018 at 5:05:40 PM

Hmm...

Broly’s first appearance had him being beaten by Goku. Then by Gohan and Goten. And then with just Goten (with Trunks, Krillin, 18) felling the Son family.

Going by this progression, I can only conclude that the new Broly movie will end with him being defeated by Pan.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#85163: Jul 17th 2018 at 5:13:14 PM

Technically, Goku was there the second time, too, and the third time he was actually beaten by a wave of water.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#85164: Jul 17th 2018 at 5:21:26 PM

So Broly was defeated by every Sayian on Earth... except Vegeta.

You guys think he'll cry in the new movie too?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85165: Jul 17th 2018 at 5:23:19 PM

Most likely.

Dude cry’s a lot after all.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 17th 2018 at 5:25:02 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#85166: Jul 17th 2018 at 5:25:38 PM

So Broly was defeated by every Sayian on Earth... except Vegeta.

[lol]

One Strip! One Strip!
DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#85167: Jul 17th 2018 at 8:22:22 PM

Vegeta contributed energy to Goku's first victory...

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#85168: Jul 17th 2018 at 8:26:04 PM

Um...he did?

I'm pretty sure he had nothing to do with punching out that bear.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#85169: Jul 17th 2018 at 8:26:26 PM

Listen, do you want to shit on Vegeta, or ruin things with logic?

One or the other man! Choose!

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85170: Jul 17th 2018 at 8:27:00 PM

Goku still did most of the work.

That is no victory for Vegeta.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#85171: Jul 17th 2018 at 8:28:18 PM

[up]

Oh, and that's exactly how he'd see it too! It was Goku victory and not him!

That's perfect![lol]

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#85172: Jul 17th 2018 at 8:41:16 PM

The easy ki transference sure is amazing

If only batteries charged so easily

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#85173: Jul 17th 2018 at 9:45:58 PM

@ Handsomrob's two random questions:

1) I wish some characters from the Tournament of Power showed up earlier just so we could have gotten more of them. Caulifla and Kale specifically.

2) Why have we not had a character use a Kamehameha-Kienzan yet. Throw the Kienzan and then shoot a Kamehameha at the edge to turn it into a buzzsaw. That would be so cool.

You are not alone.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#85174: Jul 17th 2018 at 9:58:51 PM

The Kienzan areldy is a buzzsaw isn't it?

It's essentially a Ki-Buzzsaw.

I agree that being introduced to more characters before hand would have been nice too.

I'm sure there was some room for them somewhere.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#85175: Jul 17th 2018 at 9:59:42 PM

That would be really cool.

The thing about Vegeta's contribution is that it is 100% framed as the thing that allowed Goku to beat Broly. Goku had Trunks, Piccolo, and Gohan sending him ki, and Broly was still whipping his ass. It's only after Vegeta gives in and gives Goku his ki that Goku goes from getting his ass kicked to one-shotting Broly.

That's one thing I really hope they change in Movie 20. In all three of the other Broly movies, Broly is an unstoppable juggernaut until the plot decides he's suddenly not and he loses in one hit. First it's a punch to the gut, second it's the Family Kamehameha, and third it's Goten, Trunks, and Krillin hitting him with a tidal wave kicked up by their Kamehamehas. I don't want DBS:B to be another movie where Broly is completely indestructible until they land one good hit and he falls to pieces. I want Broly to go down in a prolonged battle where he is just outmatched and overpowered, and for him to lose because of damage accumulated over the course of the fight.


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