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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#84326: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:27:40 PM

At most, characters have very slight variances in their stats based on body type, training, and fighting style, like if their power levels were equal, Piccolo would probably be slower and hit harder than Chiaotzu, but that difference is very small and not enough to make up sizable gaps in Power Levels.

edited 4th Jun '18 3:28:19 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#84327: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:28:40 PM

One of the only times it mattered was in the Jackie Chun fight when the deciding factor was longer legs.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#84328: Jun 4th 2018 at 4:21:34 PM

I'm not saying 18 isn't necessarily stronger than Frieza in every aspect; she probably is. I'd have liked to have actually seen that, though. As mentioned, the Androids really only do close-combat, which doesn't really make them look that impressive.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#84329: Jun 4th 2018 at 4:23:00 PM

They barely get to do anything which is what makes them unimpressive. They have one short fight apiece.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#84330: Jun 4th 2018 at 4:25:31 PM

Blame that ex editor and his picky tastes

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#84331: Jun 4th 2018 at 4:30:18 PM

How...would these guys have upped the stakes at the final stage.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#84332: Jun 4th 2018 at 4:34:12 PM

We'll never know because as a rule Toriyama doesn't plan that far ahead

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#84333: Jun 4th 2018 at 4:49:13 PM

Again, there is absolutely no reason to pick on the Androids compared to every other character.

18 is stronger than full power Vegeta. Him saying that he's not going at full power is weird, because he should be able to control himself (if he can't, then the he'd be in danger of destroying the Earth well before Super Saiyan). I took that boast to mean if he hit the Earth with full power, not that he would just do it incidentally.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#84334: Jun 4th 2018 at 5:35:31 PM

Picking on the androids always just seemed like a reaction to the story moving beyond Frieza after establishing in him as the strongest in the Universe.

Which is ultimately pretty arbitrary, that he was the strongest for a long time doesn't mean he can't be surpassed. That it happened on Earth is convenient for the story, but most stories, good or bad, run on some level of contrivance.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#84335: Jun 4th 2018 at 6:09:33 PM

I'm just saying...the threat level they pose to the world.

Killing everybody doesn't seem like something the present androids would've done...

Like the stakes, man, the stakes!!!

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#84336: Jun 4th 2018 at 6:25:52 PM

The androids were softened probably because they were dismissed from final boss duty

In a way it's a shame that 17 and 18 weren't the final bosses because I don't think there's been a thing where two roughly equally powered people were the arc villains and a thing where co-villains actually cared about each other seems pretty fresh too

edited 4th Jun '18 8:40:44 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#84337: Jun 4th 2018 at 6:49:44 PM

Which, to be fair, is nothing new for me. I do get tired of being completely wrong though. One of these days, one of you guys has to screw up.

I'm looking at you Pope. Throw me a bone here.

@ Vegeta vs. 18: I just checked the chapter; Vegeta doesn't actually say that the blast that hit her could destroy the Earth. What he says is he's holding back because if he goes all out, he'll destroy the Earth. So if 18 could survive a world-destroying attack is still ambiguous.

@Handsome Rob: Never say Saiga hasn't ever done anything for you.

Again, there is absolutely no reason to pick on the Androids compared to every other character.

I get the feeling the Androids just represent the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of people when it comes to DBZ's increasing power levels.

In a way it's a shame that 17 and 18 weren't the final bosses because I don't think there's been a thing where two roughly equally powered people were the arc villains and a thing where co-villains actually cared about each other seems pretty fresh too

The power gap was bigger for them (instead going for a Sword and Shield type thing), but Goku Black and Zamasu fit the bill pretty well. I really enjoyed all their various co-op attacks in the Future Trunks arc. 17 and 18 vs Gohan in History of Trunks was also some pretty cool co-op.

edited 4th Jun '18 6:49:54 PM by Moth13

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#84338: Jun 4th 2018 at 8:12:49 PM

Funny you should call it that, I was thinking of pitching "Sword And Shield Tag Team" as a trope on this website for that kind of team dynamic. Black and Zamasssss are hardly the only ones.

edited 4th Jun '18 8:14:35 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#84339: Jun 4th 2018 at 10:18:22 PM

I knew the original line - Hamburger is actually slightly wrong, 18 didn't tank that blast.

The later fight has Vegeta establish that he's going all out and 18 then takes no damage in his attack. In his own words, that can destroy the Earth.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#84340: Jun 4th 2018 at 10:37:56 PM

I've heard people say that Hit probably can't blow up a planet, and I'm not sure if they're right or not. Hit is certainly incredibly strong and durable, but most of his strength comes from pressure point attacks and his time-skip. It's also not been established whether or not he can even fire ki blasts aside from his special phasing ones, which specifically phase through all matter except his target, and they don't explode or anything, acting more like a compressed punch or a gunshot wound.

I guess it comes down to if you think Hit can blow up a planet just by directly punching it, and I'm not sure that's a thing he could do.

EDIT: wait, nope never mind. Forgot about the ki blast Hit charged up to eliminate Jiren.

edited 4th Jun '18 10:40:00 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#84341: Jun 4th 2018 at 11:39:18 PM

Hit is somone I could buy simply not knowing a texhnique that would destroy a planet. But that's not lacking the destructive power, but a way of using it in a planet destroying way.

Like his punches should hit harder then a lot of planet busting moves but I don't think we've reached the point of punching entire planets apart - aside from Goku v Beerus threatening the universe.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#84342: Jun 4th 2018 at 11:51:21 PM

What if Hit fires a phasing ki blast into the planet's core?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#84343: Jun 5th 2018 at 12:06:15 AM

Depends on if his phasing ki blasts can even target inorganic matter and if they can, do enough widespread damage to destabilize the core. Even if it's an absolute cubic fuckton of power, it might not be enough to destabilize the core of a planet if it's all compressed into a roughly 3 inch diameter circle.

edited 5th Jun '18 12:13:57 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#84344: Jun 5th 2018 at 12:24:33 AM

Interestingly, Geekdom has an episode on Hit that displays his feats.

"Mai waifu."
ZeroDozer Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!! from Santo André, SP, Brazil Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!!
#84345: Jun 5th 2018 at 1:56:57 PM

How come people never consider the idea of controlling the Ki blasts as so to not cause unnecessary damage?

It's not hard to compare Gohan's mountain-blowing tantrum at the start of Z with the maneuvers he pulls at both the end of Z and along Super.

edited 5th Jun '18 1:58:30 PM by ZeroDozer

Growing up, it's like a civil war, don't turn away, it's something you can't ignore...
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#84347: Jun 5th 2018 at 2:04:31 PM

It's specifically mentioned multiple times that they control the amount of damage their blasts do to the environment to avoid destroying everything.

ZeroDozer Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!! from Santo André, SP, Brazil Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!!
#84348: Jun 5th 2018 at 2:33:14 PM

I also mentioned at one point that Goku's uncontrolled clash with Beerus almost destroyed the universe.

Growing up, it's like a civil war, don't turn away, it's something you can't ignore...
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#84349: Jun 5th 2018 at 2:35:43 PM

That whole thing was stupid as fuck, boring, & I think was only a Super thing.

edited 5th Jun '18 2:37:56 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
ZeroDozer Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!! from Santo André, SP, Brazil Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!!
#84350: Jun 5th 2018 at 3:55:08 PM

Well, Super is still supervised by Toriyama if not written by him. The two first arcs are quite the expansion of the movies in the anime. Unless you only take the manga into consideration, of course.

edited 5th Jun '18 4:05:17 PM by ZeroDozer

Growing up, it's like a civil war, don't turn away, it's something you can't ignore...

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