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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#84051: May 22nd 2018 at 12:08:32 PM

Toyotarou traces, which has always been a mark against him but I'm not going to pretend I care if he does. Super's story is bad regardless of how much he traces.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#84052: May 22nd 2018 at 12:11:22 PM

I think the last time it was really noticeable was when Fused Zamasu regenerated exactly like Cell did from the Final Flash.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#84053: May 22nd 2018 at 5:23:33 PM

But when traces Z people just thought it was a homage. But not that he has been caught tracing Dextor Soy's art, he doesn't have that excuse.

And after seeing the images side by side, it is in fact a trace. There's no denying it.

Toyotaro even deleted the sketch of it from his Twitter after people started to notice.

edited 22nd May '18 5:26:56 PM by Cortez

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#84054: May 22nd 2018 at 9:07:51 PM

@Saiga: People often use "tracing" to mean "near exact copy", even if no actual tracing occurs.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#84055: May 22nd 2018 at 11:28:38 PM

[up] I feel like that should be distinguished because tracing is illegal as opposed to just copying the pose.

As far as I could tell, none of Toyotarou's copied poses were traces. Whereas another DB artist, fan mangaka Young Jiji, directly traced the manga for several scenes and it was much more noticeable.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#84056: May 22nd 2018 at 11:28:51 PM
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#84057: May 22nd 2018 at 11:39:44 PM

Soy doesn't seem upset, but he does say he's both flattered and confused. But not angry or upset.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#84058: May 22nd 2018 at 11:42:50 PM

1. Which comic is that from? Cause Soy's art is good. [tup]

2. Huh I don't know Vol 9 of MHA was a homage to an Ultimate Spider-Man cover.

3. Hey I didn't know Kale's smashing of Goku was an Avenger's homage.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#84059: May 22nd 2018 at 11:44:48 PM

Which comic is that from? Cause Soy's art is good.

Kelly Sue's Captain Marvel run. First issue.

Huh I don't know Vol 9 of MHA was a homage to an Ultimate Spider-Man cover.

Same. But now that it was pointed out, i can't unsee it.

edited 22nd May '18 11:49:10 PM by Cortez

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#84060: May 22nd 2018 at 11:57:40 PM

Is that one of the good runs cause Marvel relaunches Captain Marvel like its going out of business.

BTW for those who don't know I do not mean that in a good way as Carol Danver's Captain Marvel has never sold particularly well. Not helped by Marvel's constant restarting of the title back to issue one to the point within the last 5 years Captain Marvel has had 5 ongoing series with most not even making it past 12 issues.

Huh when did that image come out? I thought that particular show of Yu-Gi-Oh has long since ended.

edited 22nd May '18 11:58:14 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#84061: May 23rd 2018 at 12:07:48 AM

That's the first Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel run. It was good and sold well.

The relaunches started after that one.

And if you mean the image from the comic, that issue came out in 2012.

But we're getting off topic here.

edited 23rd May '18 12:09:19 AM by Cortez

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#84062: May 23rd 2018 at 12:09:32 AM

Ah the one that put her on the map & when Marvel really started trying to make her their Wonder Woman.

At the very least I heard that run was pretty good.

[up] I meant the promo image that Toyo apparently traced, not the comic.

edited 23rd May '18 12:10:46 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#84063: May 23rd 2018 at 6:15:05 AM

It could be a promotion for the (vastly different) manga that I think is still ongoing.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#84064: May 23rd 2018 at 7:04:18 AM

Both the DBS manga and YGO Arc-V manga run in V Jump, so this is likely a promotion for both manga series in particular

TwistedGear Don't know how to pilot this thing Since: Jun, 2014
Don't know how to pilot this thing
#84065: May 23rd 2018 at 4:32:28 PM

Tracing isn't illegal in the comic business as far as I'm aware. It's highly frowned upon but plenty of artists do it, some even openly admit it from what I've read. It helps avoid missing the deadline or making a specific pose look less cruddy. Also, I personally feel like tracing gets needlessly hated, especially in cases like these where the traced art and the original are of completely different characters and the pose is used for a completely different purpose. If he had drawn Goku in that pose by pure coincidence no-one would have cared, but for some dumb reason because he saved time andtraced art that featured the pose he was going for, suddenly it's not good art.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#84066: May 23rd 2018 at 4:34:06 PM

Yeah, I don't see why that's supposed to be a big deal.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#84067: May 23rd 2018 at 4:36:28 PM

There is an argument to be made regarding tracing too much and whether or not it calls into question how good an artist actually is but I have no idea how that applies here.

This song needs more love.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#84068: May 23rd 2018 at 4:37:40 PM

It doesn't matter if Toyo traces from time to time because it has no real bearing on the quality of the manga.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#84069: May 23rd 2018 at 4:37:54 PM

Comic book artist Greg Land is constantly lambasted & has a very poor reputation for the heavy use of tracing in his art work.

He constantly traces his own work & he even traces pornstars for expressions for female characters.

edited 23rd May '18 4:38:55 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#84070: May 23rd 2018 at 4:46:19 PM

That's because he's lazy and he goes overboard with it, as well as don't care that what he traces doesn't fit with the scene he's drawing.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#84071: May 23rd 2018 at 4:46:23 PM

[up][up] On the writing maybe, but art is a pretty big part of a manga experience.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#84072: May 23rd 2018 at 5:47:16 PM

[up]×4

It's a visual medium, so it kinda does.

If he had drawn Goku in that pose by pure coincidence no-one would have cared

Obviously, because then it wouldn't be a trace.

And sure some artist trace, but they aren't seen in a favorable light. Like others have mentioned, it's why a lot of fans have a low opinion of Greg Langs work.

The sad thing is his are was actually pretty nice before he started tracing.

And think most wouldn't have minded if Toyotaro had at least given credit to Dexter Soy.

edited 23rd May '18 5:54:29 PM by Cortez

galleyfox Since: Feb, 2018
#84073: May 23rd 2018 at 8:47:22 PM

The tracing, for me, is just an indicator of deeper problems with Toyotaro's artwork and the storytelling in general. Even assuming that the Captain America pose is just a reference and not a trace... why wasn't the anatomy corrected? The head is in the completely wrong place oriented to the torso. It really takes me out of the story when I see broken bone and rubber muscle poses.

And that's only the tip of the artwork problems. Incorrect anatomy, wonky perspectives, incorrect PO Vs, and choppy transitions just litter Toyotaro's art. I could go on, but it's annoying to see so many basic mistakes pop up over and over again in a very high-profile franchise.

Sure, I could sympathize if Toyotaro traced because he's under time pressure, but if he's tracing because he hasn't mastered the fundamentals, I very much question his being a successor.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#84074: May 24th 2018 at 12:15:51 AM

Yeah, reading the original Dragon Ball and comparing it to the Super manga is like night and day. It is painfully obvious how much of an amateur Toyo is, even compared to Toriyama, who's not known for being a god-tier artist.

edited 24th May '18 12:17:19 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#84075: May 24th 2018 at 12:20:25 AM

Now it just seems like you're being insulting for the sake of it.


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