Look, at the end of the day I was just happy to see serious Roshi one more time, since in Z and GT we only ever got dirty old man Roshi.
And the guys he beat weren't guy like Jiren, Toppo or Hit, so it didn't bother me.
I loved it when it first happened, though mostly because even if it was a massive Ass Pull, Trunk got to actually save his world... so you can imagine how I felt about that damned ending.
Yeah, that's how i feel about that too.
edited 21st May '18 12:42:52 PM by Cortez
The annual Dragon Ball Heroes character poll has started!
Vote for your favorite characters, or better yet, vote for characters that no one else will! Throw off Dimps and Yamamuro with your choices.
You know 18 got two eliminations in the first chapter of the tournament, right? Jimeze and Prum. Some people thought Jimeze teleported but this chapter confirmed he is out.
The thing about the anime is that everyone got eliminations, which makes it unimpressive. If Roshi and Tenshinhan can get multiple eliminations, it becomes meaningless for better fighters.
Anyway, I didn't mention Roshi to suggest his mere presence is pandering. To an extent, it is, because his inclusion makes zero sense and is inconsistent with the original. But the fact that he is still in, and his comments to Goku make me expect that he will get a pandering moment just like he did in the anime.
As for experience, that doesn't count for shit. It shouldn't count for shit. Experience does not bridge the kind of gaps we are playing with.
Roshi got surpassed by young teen Goku and pre-Saiyan arc humans. That is how irrelevant he is. Is anyone in this tournament below young teen Goku? Acting like his experience would matter now is horseshit.
Also, really, what experience does Roshi have? He may be old, but he's been earthbound his entire life and didn't even deal with the really weird shit that has visited Earth. He was retired when the characters met him, and lacks the ability to fly or any of the high level techniques introduced as the series progressed.
Acting like he should be some bastion of unending wisdom does not make sense. Yes, experience is an asset, which is why there was that whole thing of him imparting what he knew onto his students. Acting like he would always have more wisdom than him is beyond ridicullous, and it flies in the face of his entire character arc which was about being surpassed - not just in power, but as a teacher as well. If he still had so much more valuable knowledge, he never would have told his students that they had grown beyond his teachings.
People want Roshi to remain this wise master who is ahead of the cast, but that doesn't make any sense at all and never worked with the story.
Did she? I guess I forgot. Ok then, good on her.
Maybe because without that status as the wise old master, that just leaves disgusting pervert. I'd rather have him as the wise master, but yeah, that's not his thing anymore...
I guess that's why we have Whis now.
edited 21st May '18 2:28:59 PM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!He shouldn't be in the main cast anymore. They can't find things to do for the majority of them anyway.
He's retired. Yamcha's retired. Tien and Chaotzu should be retired. Heck, Piccolo should probably retire.
edited 21st May '18 2:35:01 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Latest chapter was weak, as usual. The only reason I'm reading is for some vain hope that the manga will expand upon the minor fighters who were ignored in the anime, but the only one they've done that for so far is Comfrey. I was hoping the manga would expand upon ignored fighters like Murichim, Jim, Jilcol, Jirasen, and Murisam, all from Universe 10, but I see now that those hopes were utterly useless.
Odds are that the remaining fighters who didn't do anything in the anime still won't do anything in the manga, either. Manga's still a complete and total waste of time.
Yeah, Roshi went out with dignity.
I know why they brought him back, because of cheap humour and because he's got some neat attacks.
But he could teach those neat attacks to other people. Have Goten and Trunks, have one learn from Tien and be all serious and one learn from Roshi and be all kooky.
That's a support role though. In terms of battles he's passed the torch.
edited 21st May '18 2:43:02 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Wait. The continued perversion is only a thing in the anime? I never knew.
I agree that he's just their buddy now. And yeah, Roshi should bow out. I mean, he got to win one last tournament, can says he's beaten Goku in a fair one on one fight (and how many can say that? There's him, Tao, King Piccolo, and I guess Cell) and is the reason for Goku's eternal quest of self improvement.
Try using some of the newer characters you have Toriyama. Stop putting Buu to sleep and start putting him to work. Or at the very least, if you're going to keep using old characters, find real roles for them beyond they get beaten quickly to establish the threat or for the sake of dumb jokes.
Edit: That's another thing. Why aren't the old times teaching the younger guys some of their techniques. I bet Gotenks could get some good work out of Instant Transmission. And the Solar Flare should be a pre-requisite technique too.
edited 21st May '18 2:45:31 PM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!This would be a chance to make them interesting individually.
They need to start moving in new characters.
I'm not arguing that they didn't suck originally, but this could be a chance to fix that, not wallow in nostalgia.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Yeah, arguing "Goten and Trunks suck, so they should never try and improve them" has never made sense.
They're young, and still have room to grow. If they're going to keep the franchise going maybe actually have them grow, instead of rehashing the same things repeatedly with characters who have all basically fully developed at this point.
edited 21st May '18 2:48:56 PM by LSBK

Spirit Sword was cool.
I loved it when it first happened, though mostly because even if it was a massive Ass Pull, Trunk got to actually save his world... so you can imagine how I felt about that damned ending.
But yeah, you can't just have experience, you can't just have skill, and you can't just have power, you need all of them. Dragon Ball is a world of Lightning Bruisers where how meaningless or meaningful your muscles are is entirely dependent on how much Ki you have, and only once you have that does any type of skill or experience matter. It often doesn't feel that way because of the race for new and more powerful transformations etc, but look at Gohan vs Dabura: the former should have ended the fight in second, but because of how unskilled he'd become, he couldn't. That being said, his lack of skill had little affect on how much more powerful he was than Dabura, who couldn't even hurt him at all.
...shit, forgot what else I was going to say. Oh well, it's just gonna be the same old shit anyway.
Wait. I got it back. Ok, so I also liked seeing Roshi in action again, but it's clear that his in the tournament isn't about any form of logic. He's there because Toriyama wanted him there, and he's powered up to justify his being there. I think that when he wants a character involved, he'll just come up with something, regardless of how much sense it does or doesn't make. It's as simple as that.
One Strip! One Strip!