TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#83651: May 2nd 2018 at 11:14:05 AM

That is the greatest attack name ever. Nothing else will ever come close.

This song needs more love.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83652: May 2nd 2018 at 1:37:15 PM

[up][up][up] Part of my idea had BOG moving directly into U 6 with Goku/Vegeta not having the new God forms until Goku vs Hit and Vegeta vs Black respectively.

I don't think it is for the best for them to have more transformations, it'd be better to just work around the moments that depend on them. Especially if Ultimate Gohan is still a thing.

Having the old forms could still work if the powered-up base was completely cut and things were kept consistent, but that'd effect Black as well.

edited 2nd May '18 1:41:05 PM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83653: May 2nd 2018 at 1:46:38 PM

Which is why I like them having a form which resemble their base form, it allows the writers to have their cake and eat it too. Just have the powered-up base be separate from their non-powered-up base. It works.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83654: May 2nd 2018 at 2:25:19 PM

That is hands down the worst way to handle it.

There's no indicator for what they're using, there is no reason for them to use lower forms at all except for sandbagging, it makes things unclear and harder to understand and muddles up any attempt to have consistency.

All of these are already big, ongoing problems with Super.

I already said you'd need to cut the powered up base forms to fit in the old transformations, and that's why. They don't play nice together.

Trying to enable the writers to have their cake and eat it too is enabling bad, lazy writing instead of finding ways to make the plot work in a clear and concise way.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83655: May 2nd 2018 at 2:26:35 PM

I think a good indicator would be to have the aura look different and keep that consistent. Like, the normal aura is spikey, but the Godly Ki aura is firey.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#83656: May 2nd 2018 at 2:38:13 PM

Toei can't even be bothered to animate the lightning aura of SSJ2 90% of the time even though that's often the only way to tell when it's being used. What on Earth makes you think they could be assed to do that?

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83657: May 2nd 2018 at 2:41:28 PM

When I talk about what could be done to change Super, I'm not talking about Toei. I'm talking about me. I'm talking about what I'm planning to change in my future plans to make a live-action Dragon Ball series of movies, and I'm using you guys as a sounding board to get other opinions.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#83658: May 2nd 2018 at 2:58:38 PM

I do agree that trying to keep Goku and Vegeta's newer forms while still maintaining their lower forms is a recipe for disaster; if the new transformations are outright better than the old ones, what use is there in using them? This is why you never saw Kaioken again after Goku became Super Saiyan, because the latter was just flat out better in every way.

I'd say their base forms should at least be as powerful as when they'd be using SSJ 1 before.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83659: May 2nd 2018 at 3:21:29 PM

The other option is trying some sort of Multiform Balance.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#83660: May 2nd 2018 at 3:26:34 PM

This is why you never saw Kaioken again after Goku became Super Saiyan, because the latter was just flat out better in every way.

I won't argue that, although I'll still argue that Kaioken could have remained useful if Toriyama had been willing to iron out some limits on how high you could set it.

And Super Saiyan does still have the massive Stamina drain issues, especially in its higher forms (particularly 3), just as Kaioken does more damage to you the higher the level you use, and Goku never overcomes 3's drain before achieving God it seems.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#83661: May 2nd 2018 at 3:34:12 PM

Rob, we've been through this before, so I'm not even going to bother explaining; Dragon Ball is as Dragon Ball does.

[up][up] That doesn't really work because all of the transformations do literally the same thing, just being better versions of the last. The only exceptions being the Mid forms between SSJ 1 and SSJ 2 and those were already deemed Awesome, but Impractical and were rendered obsolete when SSJ 2 became a thing, having all of the benefits but with none of the drawbacks.

edited 2nd May '18 3:34:59 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#83662: May 2nd 2018 at 3:43:47 PM

[up]

Heh. I suppose I should be lucky I got such a restrained answer.

Anyway, I've been thinking...

<Everyone everywhere groans>

SHUT IT!!! Anyway, I think I finally figured out why Toei jumped the gun with Gogeta.

Remember, Toriyama had made Gohan the hero, and with Goku (and Vegeta) dead, they probably though the chances of Toriyama fusing them were slim to none. So they figured they'd do a little dream scenario for something that wouldn't happen in the series.

They'd probably already gotten the movie mostly done when Toriyama changed gears and decided to make Goku the hero again (and I doubt he mentioned that, as I can picture it being a very last minute decision on his part, though if we know when he made this decision, I'll rescind that statement).

So simply put, they made the decision based on old information. That's my theory.

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#83663: May 2nd 2018 at 3:46:29 PM

What is one thing you think Super legitimately did better than the original?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#83664: May 2nd 2018 at 3:48:40 PM

Honestly, as silly as he was, I think Wallpaper Zamasu did a better job of coming off as a threat that necessitated the Nuclear Option that is Zen-O than the manga's version of him.

One Strip! One Strip!
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#83665: May 2nd 2018 at 3:49:13 PM

How miserable must Future Chi-Chi's life be? She lost her husband, lost her only son and will either be killed by the body of her husband(again) or massacred with everyone else in that timeline. Assuming she even survives to that point and doesn't suffer Death by Despair. Or worse, killing herself

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#83666: May 2nd 2018 at 3:50:03 PM

I guess we'll never know, since we never even see Future Chi-chi. She's either dead, or just not important enough to appear.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83667: May 2nd 2018 at 3:51:01 PM

I think that Super does the whole no stakes stuff pretty well. Like, I think the well recieved episodes are the ones like the Yamcha baseball episode where they all kind of mess around.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#83668: May 2nd 2018 at 3:54:35 PM

The concept of fighting gods was genuinely interesting regardless of what became of it, and we got a rather interesting antagonist in Black/Zamasu out of it.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#83669: May 2nd 2018 at 4:52:17 PM

Eh, Zamasu was never interesting to me, and Black only slightly less so.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#83670: May 2nd 2018 at 5:39:39 PM

I think it would have been better if Zamasu more possess & merged with Goku soul-wise.

Its Goku's physical body but like Zamasu's still piloting it only Goku's trapped in And I Must Scream fate.

So to make him less of a rip-off of Ginyu.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#83671: May 2nd 2018 at 5:43:15 PM

[up][up] To each their own; I found him entertaining and memorable enough. Dragon Ball villains aren't that complex and while I admit he has a lot of problems surrounding him, I don't feel they drag him down anymore so than say, Cell or Buu.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#83672: May 2nd 2018 at 5:47:10 PM

He does have a very different motivation from previous villains (it's not about revenge, hurting people for the sake of hurting them, or making himself even more powerful).

I don't think any of the other villains believed they were doing anything right. In fact I doubt they cared. Zamasu actually did want to help the universe, he was just totally wrong in both what he wanted to do, and how he wanted to do it.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83673: May 2nd 2018 at 5:56:37 PM

I like Zamasu because of his character development. He goes from a relatively normal guy with a couple wack ideas, to screaming, ranting, and crying about how he's the one true god burdened with glorious purpose and all mortals are just mean jerks who should all die.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#83674: May 2nd 2018 at 5:58:53 PM

It was kinda fun seeing him reach that point.

I mean, we don't usually see the villain on the path to becoming a villain.

Of course, that's only if you enjoy the anime's rendition of it, which I know some don't care for (though I think the manga had them figure out how things were really happening lightning quick too).

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#83675: May 2nd 2018 at 6:01:37 PM

Yea, the whole transition of him believing his own bullshit until he descended into madness out of sheer narcissism was entertaining.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

Total posts: 130,800
Top