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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#83551: Apr 26th 2018 at 6:13:54 PM

Goku vs Grandpa and Yamcha vs Invisible Man are the only good Uranai Baba fights, the rest range from whatever to garbage.

I'll agree with this. We all know that Yamcha could have won that fight on his own if Baba didn't start singing to distract drown out the noise the invisible man was making, and Grandpa Gohan was mostly only known by what little was said about him, so seeing what he could really do (and seeing someone else act on Goku's tail weakness).

The other fights are essentially either jokes, or pointless since, by the way the power scale works, Goku could have fought everyone on his own (though if they'd tried that, I'm pretty sure Toriyama would have come up with a way for Goku to get taken out from the start).

The Devilman fight is particularly bad, as he's hyped up as a big shot, then taken out like every other scrub (with even his No Saving Throw Unblockable Attack conveniently being No Selled). You gotta actually establish the other dude as dangerous. Not just say they are and then let them get stomped.

edited 26th Apr '18 6:17:40 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83552: Apr 26th 2018 at 6:26:28 PM

[up][up] It's a potential unlock like Guru, but super dangerous and can potentially kill someone if it fails to draw out their power.

In the RRA arc, Goku first hears about it in Karin's tower and Karin makes him prove himself worthy by stealing the bottle from him. After three days, Goku succeeds (by tricking Karin) only to drink the water and realize it was rainwater. Then Karin says that the 3 days spent trying to steal the water has made him much stronger, and that is the real secret.

In the Daimao arc, Karin reveals that there IS a super water, but because of the danger he had to cover up its existence. At this stage, Goku is strong enough (and the situation dire enough) for Karin to give it an attempt.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#83553: Apr 26th 2018 at 6:30:15 PM

Ah, I did see the training with Corin, but didn't know there was an extension/real thing that came back up later.

Eh, as far as power-ups like that go, that sounds like it works as a callback and isn't completely out of the blue. I can see why some people wouldn't be okay with it though.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83554: Apr 26th 2018 at 6:32:03 PM

It's certainly a retcon in the meta sense, but I like it particularly for opening up the concept of potential unlocks and also showing that Goku isn't above them

Edit: I completely disagree that the concept of the divine water is offensive or lazy. That's quite an extreme aversion.

Sure, when you reduce it down to 'drink this and get strong' it sounds dumb, but that's reductive and unfair. The concept of secret, dangerous power ups or drawing out ones' potential in time of needs is too broad to completely write off as dumb. It'd be really limiting to have such a concept be left off the table entirely.

edited 26th Apr '18 6:39:24 PM by Saiga

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#83555: Apr 26th 2018 at 7:07:54 PM

I do agree that the divine water power up felt a bit lazy to me, while I understand the concept of "A Power up that is potentially dangerous to the user" and foreshadows Goku's Saiyan heritage, its a moot point because any Genre Savvy viewer knows Goku is going to survive. So making a big plot point about how dangerous it is feels pointless because the outcome is inevitable.

And it being inevitable isn't what I have an issue with, those are things that are necessary for the story to proceed, but there's nothing particularly interesting about it. Goku just drinks the water and just writhes in agony for a while before he's better and powered up.

It's the most simplistic form of Power at a Price but with no actual price to pay, in the series and while it works in certain areas, I didn't find it really interesting either and to me, just served as a means to end of the arc. Things like Kaioken and Super Saiyan I felt were better at this concept.

edited 26th Apr '18 7:08:58 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83556: Apr 26th 2018 at 7:10:17 PM

I like the Yamcha/Bandages fight. Yamcha and Bandages both look kind of cool in it. It's not great or anything, but it's okay. Staff Officer Black is also my favorite villain in the franchise, so I'm not going to agree that the King Piccolo arc is better than the Red Ribbon Army arc. Personally, my favorite arc of the series is the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai, followed by the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83557: Apr 26th 2018 at 7:18:38 PM

[up][up] For me, it helps that the Divine Water wasn't a riduculous power up in the long run. The power scaling was still low enough for that kind of thing to fit in. And it's not really power at a price, but essentially gambling against time. Training can produce similar results, but won't produce them now.

Or at least it shouldn't. I've found the ridiculously short training sequences to feel way cheaper as a means of powering someone up, because the only 'cost' to training is time invested - so if you drastically cut down that investment it kind of defeats the point of training and becomes incredibly inconsistent.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#83558: Apr 26th 2018 at 8:34:06 PM

But I'm not saying that training would have been a preferable method, rather that the method they used just was not interesting.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#83559: Apr 26th 2018 at 8:35:05 PM

The anime apparently changed it up to more of a spiritual test quest thing.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83560: Apr 26th 2018 at 8:46:43 PM

[up][up] Oh I know, that was just for comparison's sake on the whole 'price' thing.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#83561: Apr 26th 2018 at 9:43:25 PM

[up][up]That sounds like a pretty good change.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#83562: Apr 26th 2018 at 10:59:01 PM

As I recall, in the anime Goku had to go on this journey and fight ghosts or something to get to the water in the first place, instead of Korin just giving it to him.

edited 26th Apr '18 10:59:11 PM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83563: Apr 27th 2018 at 12:49:43 AM

That is a bit better than in the original.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#83564: Apr 27th 2018 at 9:22:17 AM

Aw, I thought it was just a bunch of pots showing him some scary images...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#83565: Apr 29th 2018 at 6:38:27 AM

Do you guys know that it's possible to fit the entire Tournament of Power in 48 minutes in real time Without anything being cut or fast forward?

Because believe it or not, it's possible.

edited 29th Apr '18 6:39:11 AM by GarnetRebeller96

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83567: Apr 29th 2018 at 6:40:08 AM

That's 100% impossible and you only need to watch one episode of the TOP to know that.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#83568: Apr 29th 2018 at 6:46:55 AM

Let me guess, the reddit video?

GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#83569: Apr 29th 2018 at 6:50:11 AM

Prepare to eat those words!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOfqyCu10r8

Edit: [up] Correct!

edited 29th Apr '18 6:54:00 AM by GarnetRebeller96

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83570: Apr 29th 2018 at 6:54:16 AM

Um. The one that does, in fact, cut and fast forward things?

It was already posted.

edited 29th Apr '18 6:54:33 AM by Saiga

GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#83571: Apr 29th 2018 at 6:58:58 AM

Ah, damn it. I was hoping to start in an interesting discussion.

Oh well.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#83572: Apr 29th 2018 at 6:59:56 AM

The 48 minute time limit was pointless anyway, since they fought down to the last man.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83573: Apr 29th 2018 at 7:05:11 AM

It really should have been 'fight to the last man standing'. Then the 'winner gets the Super balls' thing would make much more sense from the beginning instead of them saying it would go to the best fighter, never elaborating on how that was determined, and then giving it to 17 because he was the last person in the ring.

GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#83574: Apr 29th 2018 at 7:09:32 AM

So can anyone give me a link to this thread initial reaction to the video?

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#83575: Apr 29th 2018 at 7:10:29 AM

Though on the off chance two people from the same team are the last people standing, giving it to the best fighter sort of make sense, unless they're suppose to beat each other up as well.


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