TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#83526: Apr 26th 2018 at 10:41:36 AM

[up] According to V-Jump, Vegeta's power goes from 30,000 to 250,000 just by getting beat up by Recoome. The Saiyan power boost was never the most consistent of things.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#83527: Apr 26th 2018 at 10:46:13 AM

Karrot goes from barely 200,000 to 3,000,000...

He stopped using that Saiya-jin trait for a reason...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#83528: Apr 26th 2018 at 12:07:16 PM

Zenkai boosts stop mattering after Namek until Cell needed a bullshit power boost. Then they don't matter ever after.

Until Goku Black starts abusing them in the Future Trunks arc.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#83529: Apr 26th 2018 at 12:25:29 PM

Indeed. If the Saiyans started exploiting their zenkai boosts, they would actually be unstoppable but they were inconsistent to begin with.

"Mai waifu."
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#83530: Apr 26th 2018 at 12:25:30 PM

[up] According to V-Jump, Vegeta's power goes from 30,000 to 250,000 just by getting beat up by Recoome.

Which is ridiculous when you compare it to the Zenkai boost he got from being beaten on Earth, which boosted him from 18,000 to... what, 24,000? So with no explanation, the Zenkai boost suddenly becomes 22 times more potent.

And people say that Super had problems with inconsistency.

...which it did.

But Z had them too.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83531: Apr 26th 2018 at 12:28:59 PM

Actually, the Ginyu Force say that Vegeta's Power Level went up by 30,000, not to 30,000, so it was slightly higher than that. Minor nitpick, though, and it doesn't justify Goku going from just over 8,000 to 90,000 with multiple Zenkai and going from 90,000 to 3,000,000 with a single Zenkai immediately after.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#83532: Apr 26th 2018 at 12:36:51 PM

Zenkais increasing your power by the amount necessary for the plot is more narratively satisfying that if it just did a flat percentage every time. Yeah it's goofy as heck, but it works for the "haha! Now the tables are turned!" moment instead of "hmm, guess I'm still screwed. Maybe if I get my ass whooped seven more times the plot can progress".

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#83533: Apr 26th 2018 at 12:40:44 PM

That's Dragon Ball in a nutshell.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#83534: Apr 26th 2018 at 12:49:35 PM

I just wanted to know if heart disease counted for the boost

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#83535: Apr 26th 2018 at 12:51:40 PM

I mean, the inconsistency and being bad for the plot at upper levels is probably why they stopped happening (barring Cell).

Would have been nice to have that commented on but, eh, I don't think anyone has ever claimed that Dragon Ball was perfectly consistent with everything. Just that it was more so than Super, which is fair. I think you should go into things like Super going "Okay, here's a chance to do things like that better." instead of "It was never perfect to begin with, so it doesn't matter what we do."

edited 26th Apr '18 2:51:36 PM by LSBK

Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#83536: Apr 26th 2018 at 1:02:05 PM

[up][up] eh I don't think diseases count for a boost.

Even then, the boost may have been insignificant, which is why it it isn't mentioned.

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83537: Apr 26th 2018 at 1:02:43 PM

[up][up][up]It would've been a very small boost, since Goku's power level is around Vegeta before the virus and that doesn't seem to change after he wakes up.

edited 26th Apr '18 1:02:55 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#83538: Apr 26th 2018 at 2:50:35 PM

Inconsistent Dragon Ball is still better than Super at it's best.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#83539: Apr 26th 2018 at 4:14:56 PM

So, what's your favorite thing from OG pre-Z Dragon Ball? Because I haven't actually seen or read all of it, even though I know the general facts/summations about the arcs.

edited 26th Apr '18 4:42:43 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83540: Apr 26th 2018 at 4:29:49 PM

I dunno. Daimao arc is my favourite arc, so maybe the final fight with Daimao vs Goku. Goku vs Piccolo Junior is also pretty good.

Can't think of much that really sticks out to me. It can be pretty funny, even though I don't think I like most Japanese humour.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83541: Apr 26th 2018 at 4:34:46 PM

Piccolo Daimio retreads a lot of elements from the Red Ribbon Army Arc, and it has the silly Ultra Divine Water which is one of the stupidest elements in OG dragonball.

I prefer the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai. A good mix of comedy and action with good fights. Though the Red Ribbon Army arc is also fantastic.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83542: Apr 26th 2018 at 4:41:49 PM

I don't think the similar elements are too big an issue, especially when it does everything else so much better - pacing, antagonists, tension and the final fight are much more entertaining.

I'm also 99% sure LSBK isn't going to be bothered by the water.

How much have you seen LSBK? If you know the general facts the biggest thing you're probably not across are the details of the fights.

edited 26th Apr '18 4:43:28 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#83543: Apr 26th 2018 at 4:44:16 PM

I've seen the first couple of arcs in full, and scattered bits and pieces of everything else (Red Ribbon, Daimaou, 22 tournament, Piccolo Jr.).

edited 26th Apr '18 4:44:58 PM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83544: Apr 26th 2018 at 4:48:08 PM

I'll give you antagonist since the best Red Ribbon antagonist is TPP and his second fight is lacklustre. The RRA arc is also a lot lighter so yeah, there's usually less tension.

I do think that there's a certain charm to Goku mowing down robots and armies though, mainly since it's not something we ever really see him do again, whereas the King Piccolo fights aren't really that unique in the grand scheme of things.

But everything else is just superior for the RRA - it uses its characters better, its plot is smoother and less reliant on contrivances and is just a lot cleverernote , and it has a much stronger thematic core to it than the PD arc.

edited 26th Apr '18 4:52:39 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83545: Apr 26th 2018 at 4:57:06 PM

I don't find anything clever about the RRA arc, and it's definitely not smoother - it just continues to drag on and on after Goku gets his power up and breezes through his enemies. It's silly to even call it the RRA arc when they've still got Uranai Baba and Pilaf to deal with after that.

And I don't think any character in early DB is handled as poorly as Yamcha vs Mummy, which was a ridiculously pointless fight since Goku was already several power-ups ahead of Yamcha and this showed nothing. Kuririn also got beaten up for no real reason, just so Puar and Upa could win a fight. Too many characters in this arc, many of them serve very little point.

It's cool seeing Goku go one-man army but it lasts way too long.

The Daimao arc is much tighter and focuses on a smaller and more relevant cast of characters.

As for contrivances, I don't see a real difference in the arcs. Especially Goku's survival, for me the Daimao arc versio n makes way more sense as TPP was just plain negligent.

edited 26th Apr '18 4:58:46 PM by Saiga

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83546: Apr 26th 2018 at 5:01:35 PM

The RRA arc doesn't thematically end until Goku gets his meeting with Grandpa Gohan, which is more or less the reason he set out on the quest originally. (and then ties up a few loose ends with Pilaf).

And yes, Yamcha versus the Mummy isn't great to say the least. I don't think anyone likes it. A lot of the other fights in the Baba Yaga tournament range from okay to really good, but I don't think anyone likes the Mummy fight.

Please explain to me why Goku surviving because a dragonball blocked an energy blast is more "negligent" then Goku's heart just randomly restarting of its own accord.

Also, you not seeing a difference between one arc saying "you don't just get handed power" and two arcs later "here, have this power" utterly baffles me.

edited 26th Apr '18 5:02:31 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83547: Apr 26th 2018 at 5:06:53 PM

Goku meeting his Grandpa is the only part that is thematic. It's a nice scene but it doesn't give the arc stronger things because the majority of the arc has nothing to do with that.

Goku vs Grandpa and Yamcha vs Invisible Man are the only good Uranai Baba fights, the rest range from whatever to garbage.

And you're looking at the wrong thing. I said TPP was negligent, that has nothing to do with the circumstances of survival but his total failure to recognize a kill as the world's best assassin. The fact that Goku's survival is less miraculous only makes TPP that much stupider. But it's just kind of necessary for the arc to work, it's not a big deal but I definitely prefer Daimao being so thorough that it is a miracle Goku survived.

I DO see the difference, I just don't agree with you. I don't think it was making the message you want it to, nor was it making fun of the concept - Magic Feather usually isn't about that as a trope. That Toriyama would later use the trope shows to me you're misinterpreting the meaning of the RRA arc's message to be something you would personally prefer.

edited 26th Apr '18 5:08:53 PM by Saiga

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83548: Apr 26th 2018 at 5:10:02 PM

He was distracted by his clothes being damaged - had Goku put up any kind of real fight he likely wouldn't have been careless. But it was basically a curb stomp, so TTP didn't think much of it.

With Piccolo Daimio the problem is that the resolution is nearly physically impossible.

I can buy a character making a dumb decision better than I can something that is nearly physically impossible happening. Heck, you could have had Yajirobe run in and resucitate him.

As for the Ultra Divine Water, that sort of plot device is inherently offensive to me anyway because it's insultingly lazy. That it's combined with being so similar to an actually sort of clever element of a previous arc is just the cherry on top. But having a character drink something to become stronger? It's dumb. It's really goddamn dumb with context or without.

edited 26th Apr '18 5:12:49 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#83549: Apr 26th 2018 at 5:12:31 PM

I disagree on it being physically inpossible. Physically impossible is Vegeta walking around with a hole in his spine, but I don't even have an issue with that.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#83550: Apr 26th 2018 at 6:08:43 PM

So what was the exact situation with the Ultra Divine Water or whatever? My first reaction would be that sounds kind of cheap, but I'm not sure of the context and context is what's most important.


Total posts: 130,800
Top