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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#82751: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:06:14 PM

We just have very different definitions of "reasonable" in this situation, then. The issue isn't even that the process happened during the tournament it was that all of the "development" started happening at the very end. It's just incredibly clumsily handled.

If they had actually started on that with Jiren fairly early on instead of insisting on keeping him "mysterious" until the last moments it might have been able to work but...

edited 2nd Apr '18 10:10:20 PM by LSBK

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82752: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:07:06 PM

No, no its definitely unreasonable. Character arcs aren't supposed to span only one episode unless your a one-off character of which Jiren is most certainly not.

Especially when you take in-universe time into account.

edited 2nd Apr '18 10:07:32 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#82753: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:09:54 PM

Plenty of character arcs in movies are done in 30 minutes.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82754: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:11:30 PM

Then they were done better there compared to here.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#82755: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:11:54 PM

It's usually not supposed to be 30 minutes for the character though. But, again, going 30 minutes isn't even accurate here. The confrontation, challenging, and shambling of Jiren's beliefs happened in less than 5 minutes for him. It's just not reasonable or satisfying to expect that to lead to positive growth, especially given the actual situation.

edited 2nd Apr '18 10:12:34 PM by LSBK

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#82757: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:20:25 PM

It wasn't that big of a change. He basically went from "trust is bullshit" to "trust might be worth something". If he had went all the way to "trust is the greatest thing ever", then I might agree. He went from a -5 to a 1, not a -5 to a 5. It also helps that we see every step, every scene in this change. I agree that it was a bit too fast, but we still see it go down.

Sometimes I feel like me saying I like something is just inviting others to change their positions to say it sucks, even when me saying that was agreeing with them.

edited 2nd Apr '18 10:21:41 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#82758: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:20:41 PM

Most of those minutes are spent on fighting, so at least half that to make it accurate.

Edit: Stop making yourself sound like a victim just because people disagree with you.

edited 2nd Apr '18 10:21:24 PM by Ikedatakeshi

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#82759: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:25:17 PM

[up][up][up]Not even...

5 minutes at this rate would've lasted 5 episodes.

edited 2nd Apr '18 10:26:02 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#82760: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:39:35 PM

It wasn't that big of a change. He basically went from "trust is bullshit" to "trust might be worth something". If he had went all the way to "trust is the greatest thing ever", then I might agree. He went from a -5 to a 1, not a -5 to a 5. It also helps that we see every step, every scene in this change. I agree that it was a bit too fast, but we still see it go down.

Even that change, in the span of time it occurred in, is unrealistic and unsatisfying. Or at least, o me anyway. I think there are ways it could have been handled decently, but like most things with Jiren, it was not.

Sometimes I feel like me saying I like something is just inviting others to change their positions to say it sucks, even when me saying that was agreeing with them.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't disagree with a lot of the things you say just because it's you saying them. It's unfortunate that it happens so often, but that doesn't mean people are attacking you, it just means that you and I (and seemingly others) differ very much on how we think of these things.

edited 2nd Apr '18 10:56:42 PM by LSBK

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#82761: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:46:59 PM

Yeah, I know. It's my fault for wording my initial post awkwardly and poorly. It just hurt that my attempt to enter the conversation basically went like this:

Me: "I too like this thing that you like, let me elaborate on why."

Y'all: "You worded that poorly and it makes me want to change my opinion to disagree with you."

I apologize if I worded the above poorly too, this is only to demonstrate how my emotional brain interpreted the interaction, not how it actually went down. Please don't take offense to it, as I mean none.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82762: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:51:26 PM

Huh so could Super Buu be wished back to existence?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#82763: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:53:33 PM

I wouldn't think so, since one of the people he was made up of is still alive and the other one is reincarnated. It'd be like trying to wish back the Nameless Namek while Kami is around and King Piccolo is sealed.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#82764: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:53:57 PM

Well, he's already reincarnated, so the original isn't coming back unless you kill him.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82765: Apr 2nd 2018 at 10:58:41 PM

Then we need the Super Dragon Balls.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#82766: Apr 2nd 2018 at 11:03:24 PM

Well, we'll have to go into a philosophical discussion on identity to determine whether using the Super Dragon Balls to wish back the original Super Buu while keeping Uub alive would actually make sense.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#82767: Apr 2nd 2018 at 11:06:04 PM

Eh, does Mr. Buu existing as a separate entity make sense? Serious question, actually.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#82768: Apr 2nd 2018 at 11:07:18 PM

It does. Kid Buu being a separate entity from Evil Buu is the thing that doesn't make sense.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82769: Apr 2nd 2018 at 11:08:41 PM

Well since the Supa D-Balls can grant any wish then by that logic they should be able to grant oxymoron & paradox causing wishes.

I mean what's the most complex wish you can think of?

[up] Yeah its weird how Evil Buu just never appears again.

edited 2nd Apr '18 11:09:16 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#82770: Apr 2nd 2018 at 11:10:33 PM

[up][up] Headcanon. Evil Buu is not only the evil side of Buu, but also the evil side of the two Kais and also share their intelligence.

[up]Can't think of anything complex, but can the SD Bs retroactively make me their creator?

edited 2nd Apr '18 11:11:59 PM by Ikedatakeshi

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82771: Apr 2nd 2018 at 11:12:33 PM

[up] They should.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#82772: Apr 2nd 2018 at 11:14:02 PM

So if Kid Buu is pure original Buu that means that Mr. Buu is just those two Kais in a trenchcoat and painted pink.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#82773: Apr 2nd 2018 at 11:19:41 PM

Yeah all the Buu stuff never made sense. Kid Buu+Kais=Fat Buu.

Evil/Fat Buu= Evil Buu & Fat Buu.

Evil Buu + Fat Buu=Super Buu.

Super Buu - Fat Buu = Kid Buu.

edited 2nd Apr '18 11:19:56 PM by Jedi1113

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#82774: Apr 2nd 2018 at 11:27:58 PM

I know Dragon Ball SD abridged the Buu Saga by just having Kid Buu come out of Fat Buu when he gets mad and having the final battle complete with Spirit Bomb taking place on Earth right then and there, completely skipping Super Buu.

edited 2nd Apr '18 11:28:36 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#82775: Apr 2nd 2018 at 11:29:46 PM

The shift to Super Buu I can at least rationalize as not a power up so much as a shift in personality.

Fat Buu had a lot of Kai intelligence that had been snoozing and I guess Evil Buu eating Good Buu meant... a smarter Buu was created? Even though Buu had been pretty evil before.... uh

Guys, I think dragon ball is bullshit

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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