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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#81651: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:10:17 PM

Indeed.

It's so weird for Toriyama to bring him back, since usually he only does that to show how insignificant said returning villain is to Goku (or sometimes someone else, but usually Goku).

He's not really someone to look backwards most of the time.

One Strip! One Strip!
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#81652: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:12:24 PM

So their point was for a subplot which was completely unnecessary?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#81653: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:12:33 PM

RF was a mistake.

You could move from BOG fairly neatly into the Champa arc (with Saiyan Beyond God/SSG/Blue/whatever debuting vs Hit) and then you'd never need to bring back Freeza in this arc.

[up] Most of these subplots are unnecessary. This is at least a good execution of Toriyama ' idea.

edited 20th Mar '18 4:14:01 PM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#81654: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:15:43 PM

So where do you all place the Omen Goku vs Limit Breaker Jiren fight?

Like the best fight or among the best, was it an awesome fight or was it a decent fight better held up by modern animation?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#81655: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:18:01 PM

RF was a mistake.

Agreed. If the point was to introduce Whis' rewind powers, then there was probably a better way to do that.

Don't get me wrong: Frieza actually showing what he could do with some real training is pretty interesting (no God Ki, so imagine if someone like him became a GOD candidate), and it was kinda cool to see what the planet trade was up to without their leader too, but bringing him back was a waste.

You've never cared for characters (especially villains) once you're done with them Toriyama, so why start now.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81656: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:20:34 PM

You shouldn't introduce Whis's timeline powers because they're dumb. Just another reset button in a franchise that has about a billion of them.

RF was a mistake in every single way: it makes Freeza coming back for the TOP lack punch, it introduces SSB, it's just a massive waste of time, energy and money.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#81657: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:29:03 PM

There's 2 reset buttons...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#81658: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:29:47 PM

I assume him coming back in RF was to justify wanting to use him for the TOP, but yeah, that wasn't necessary.

They should have just stuck with Buu instead of being so determined to keep him out of the action.

One Strip! One Strip!
Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#81659: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:40:05 PM

So is that goku after the top in the movie teaser? Because it looks like an early z goku

edited 20th Mar '18 4:40:24 PM by Deadpoolrocks

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#81660: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:41:18 PM

it could be that goku lost the ability to use his saiyan forms, but it's certainly after the TOP considering we see the UI gleam in his eyes

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#81661: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:42:56 PM

Ya know I think it be cool if Goku lost his transformations.

It be symbolic showing he doesn't need transformations anymore like Gohan.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#81662: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:45:56 PM

Read the manga, so much for screen time for the humans. Even worse than the anime.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#81663: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:48:25 PM

Really, the humans have been getting pushed out for a while.

Toriyama should just commit to it instead of continuing to put them back into action for the sake for hyping up someone else.

He never really treated them as anything but tools to prop up someone else then be brushed aside so the real warriors could get to business. Krillin is the lone exception, and even he had to scrape and crawl just to not die right away (something he didn't always succeed at).

If you want them for Slice of Life stuff, that's ok, but don't send them into battle.

One Strip! One Strip!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#81664: Mar 20th 2018 at 4:53:34 PM

Don't send them into major battles, have them do their own thing...like they were before this tournament.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#81666: Mar 20th 2018 at 5:08:26 PM

No, see, if they aren't fighting in battles they by all rights have no reason to be involved in or considered for, they're wasting their time. Who cares about living their lives or fulfilling and fitting ends for characters if it doesn't involve them just doing the same things we saw when we meet them?

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#81667: Mar 20th 2018 at 5:09:29 PM

I feel Frieza appearing in the Tournament of Power was Toriyama's attempt to improve on Resurrection F, at least in terms of Frieza's character. Though still as sociopathic as ever, he's far smarter and delved into Pragmatic Villainy. It's actually what I expected Frieza's return to be-him learning from his mistakes and being a more Genre Savvy No-Nonsense Nemesis. Instead it was a retread of his past failings. Tournament of Power Frieza comes off as a more interesting villain. It's like how Dio Brando changed from Part 1 to Part 3, and then later Part 6(posthumously).

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#81668: Mar 20th 2018 at 5:09:49 PM

They would have some use in a regular tournament where wins are all that matter but in a battle royal which is a numbers game they are out of their depth.

[up] Frieza definitely has a bigger role now.

edited 20th Mar '18 5:10:43 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#81669: Mar 20th 2018 at 5:16:41 PM

Was Yajirobe stronger than Ten at one point?

It looks like he was...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81670: Mar 20th 2018 at 5:32:25 PM

Hmm,

Possibly, when Yajirobe was first introduced. He kills one of Piccolo's demon sons, wheras Tien can't do jack shit to Drum. He doesn't seem to train at all though, so it's possible that Tien passes him by the 23rd BT or the Saiyan saga.

Also, I've been saying that the humans should have been phased out earlier then they were for years. Aside from Tien holding Cell off - no, actually, I'm including that, because that didn't matter ultimately either - the humansnote  do virtually nothing that matters after the Saiyan saga. You have to have Krillin for the Freeza saga since he serves as vague team leader for the first half but he's not allowed to have virtually any really good moments to call his own aside from getting blown up so Goku can go SSJ.

You could actually make the same argument for Piccolo prior to merging being introduced as a concept, since they have to blow a wish getting a guy who's otherwise going to be completely out of his league to Namek, though unlike the others Piccolo can at least fall back on being a trainer.

edited 20th Mar '18 5:35:01 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#81671: Mar 20th 2018 at 5:37:30 PM

I was looking at his fight with Kakarotto, not the fight with demon son immediately after.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#81672: Mar 20th 2018 at 5:39:36 PM

[up]X4

If you're talking about his brief fight with Goku, I don't think Goku was back to full strength yet (he ate the fish, but I got the impression he didn't fully recover from both the fight with Tien and his earlier beating from Tambourine until he had a second meal).

I feel Frieza appearing in the Tournament of Power was Toriyama's attempt to improve on Resurrection F, at least in terms of Frieza's character. Though still as sociopathic as ever, he's far smarter and delved into Pragmatic Villainy. It's actually what I expected Frieza's return to be-him learning from his mistakes and being a more Genre Savvy No-Nonsense Nemesis.

He kinda did learn, he just didn't learn enough. He bothered to actually train after learning how strong Goku got, and even had (bullshit) plan in case he lost. It's just that he lacked the knowledge of how learning something and mastering it are two different things (due to never having trained before).

He didn't learn enough to avoid another death, but he finally seems to get it.

edited 20th Mar '18 5:39:56 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#81673: Mar 20th 2018 at 5:40:57 PM

He still won, so even if Yajirobe beat Cymbal, he wasn't equal strength.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#81674: Mar 20th 2018 at 6:06:41 PM

I think the key thing he didn't learn was getting revenge on Goku is not a good option for him, let alone his number 1 priority. I think he gets it now though.

edited 20th Mar '18 6:07:03 PM by Jedi1113

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81675: Mar 20th 2018 at 6:07:15 PM

I'm suprised he didn't also want revenge on Trunks.

Goku only beat the shit out of him, Trunks killed him.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

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